Star Wars: Andor

[Paul Farquhar]

The last episode could have been called "The One Where We Remind You This Is a Star Wars Show". I admit I found it a little jarring. I'm going to have to think about that...

Absolutely my thought too (see my "toy commercial" comment earlier).

When doing something that looks like Star Wars pulls you out of the show, as this did, it makes me think it should never had been a Star Wars show in the first place. It feels more like Blake's Seven to me (aside from the spaceships with frikkin lightsabres).

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

When doing something that looks like Star Wars pulls you out of the show, as this did, it makes me think it should never had been a Star Wars show in the first place. It feels more like Blake's Seven to me (aside from the spaceships with frikkin lightsabres).

I disagree, in two parts.

First- Blake's 7 (not spelled out, weirdly). We can all agree that Andor can't hold a candle up to that show when it comes to special effects ... after all, the Andromeda Fleet was a high point in the genre that may never be matched ... but I can understand the superficial similarity. Show about freedom fighter rebelling against the Empire/Federation, with dark themes. But once you peel away the superficial similarity, you realize the messages are completely different.

Andor has the trappings of so-called grimdark, but it's fundamentally a hopeful show. We are seeing the horror of the Empire, and the sacrifices people must make to remove tyranny, but we know (we literally know!) that these sacrifices will be worth it. Moreover, while we see the rebellion forced to make hard choices ... we see them struggle with those hard choices. That's what differentiates them from the Empire. There is no institutionalized causal cruelty.

Blake's 7 is not that show, for two reasons. First, there was no knowledge of how it would end- you didn't know of any inevitable triumph. Second, it became apparent that there was no inevitable triumph. That the best that could be hoped for was moments of respite in between the grinding of the boot. In that sense, despite the production values and the amazing job of Servalan ... the show was much more realistic than Andor. The downfall of tyranny wasn't inevitable ... in fact, it was unlikely, and all that sacrifice was probably for nothing.


Now, the second part. This is a "Star Wars" show. In fact, this is the best Star Wars show yet. To say this is not a Star Wars show is to strangle what little is left of Star Wars in the licensed bedsheets on the 1970s. A good story, well-told, and well-acted, in the Star Wars universe is a Star Wars show. I get that not everything here makes people comfortable- after all, it's easier to think of the abstract "cartoon villainy" of the Empire than consider what was necessary for it to function (the abstract idea of torture droids working off screen in ANH is much easier to pass over than to acknowledge that this was a normal part of how society was working, for example). It's also much easier to think about the heroics of Luke Skywalker showing up and shootin' down a Death Star than wondering what led to the rebellion that we see. I don't want every (or most) Star Wars shows to be quite this ... real ... but this has been a great run so far.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

First, there was no knowledge of how it would end- you didn't know of any inevitable triumph.

And the show would have been stronger if it had that element. It would also have been more powerful if they had only revealed the evil of the empire gradually, rather than have it something we know from the start.

Now, the second part. This is a "Star Wars" show.

Only in name. In spirit, it's nothing like.

Which is not to say it's bad, but it aint Star Wars, and jedi knights with lightsabre twirling spaceships do not belong in it.

 

[MarkB]

Only in name. In spirit, it's nothing like.

Which is not to say it's bad, but it aint Star Wars, and jedi knights with lightsabre twirling spaceships do not belong in it.

This reminds me of the criticisms of Rogue One, that it shifted gears from espionage movie to war movie halfway through, and the two parts didn't go together.

I never got that. The movie does both of those things superbly, and integrates them well. It also firmly places them within the realm of the Star Wars setting, and Andor is doing the same.

 

[Celebrim]

In spirit, it's nothing like.

It's pretty much like a Star Wars WEG D6 RPG brought to life. We've taken our eyes off of the main heroes of the galaxy, and we've moved off to the supporting cast - lesser heroes fighting smaller battles that make what the main characters do possible. And of course the story here is that the heroic is just as heroic if not more heroic than the superheroic. The small figures making the big sacrifices aren't less heroes than the Chosen One or the powerful Space Wizards with the ability to will the universe to obey them.

And it's doing this for a lot of important reasons, but one of which I would say is that the Galaxy had become really small. If the entire range of Star Wars was merely the immediate family of the Chosen One and the few characters that had interacted with them, then only very small stories could be told in the Star Wars universe and all the important ones had already been told.

And for that reason it also feels like some of the best of the Star Wars EU, where people were trying to tell stories about something other than the Skywalkers.

Which is not to say it's bad, but it aint Star Wars, and jedi knights with lightsabre twirling spaceships do not belong in it.

Oh, but they do. Because just because we've been focusing on the smaller heroes doing their thankless jobs outside of the limelight of the Chosen One, doesn't mean that those larger than life characters aren't out there. It's just that thankfully, we've been looking in on the countless trillions of people in the Galaxy that aren't those figures and suggesting that maybe they mean just as much.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This reminds me of the criticisms of Rogue One, that it shifted gears from espionage movie to war movie halfway through

That's hardly a new thing, have you seen Where Eagles Dare? Which is tonally more Star Wars than Andor is, although Rogue One managed to retain Star Warsishness better than Andor.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's pretty much like a Star Wars WEG D6 RPG brought to life.

The tone of a tabletop RPG is determined by the players, and can be quite different to the original IP.

 

[Ryujin]

It's pretty much like a Star Wars WEG D6 RPG brought to life. We've taken our eyes off of the main heroes of the galaxy, and we've moved off to the supporting cast - lesser heroes fighting smaller battles that make what the main characters do possible. And of course the story here is that the heroic is just as heroic if not more heroic than the superheroic. The small figures making the big sacrifices aren't less heroes than the Chosen One or the powerful Space Wizards with the ability to will the universe to obey them.

And it's doing this for a lot of important reasons, but one of which I would say is that the Galaxy had become really small. If the entire range of Star Wars was merely the immediate family of the Chosen One and the few characters that had interacted with them, then only very small stories could be told in the Star Wars universe and all the important ones had already been told.

And for that reason it also feels like some of the best of the Star Wars EU, where people were trying to tell stories about something other than the Skywalkers.



Oh, but they do. Because just because we've been focusing on the smaller heroes doing their thankless jobs outside of the limelight of the Chosen One, doesn't mean that those larger than life characters aren't out there. It's just that thankfully, we've been looking in on the countless trillions of people in the Galaxy that aren't those figures and suggesting that maybe they mean just as much.

I would even argue that the regular folks who do the work behind the scenes, so that the Chosen One can do his thing, are even more heroic. They don't have "Space Magic"(tm) so they have even less chance of succeeding. They suffer more. They die more. They have less hope, but still do what they must. For every Jedi that you see suffer and die, in the original six movies, there are thousands of regular folks who did too.

Rather interestingly back in the day, when we had a regular WEG Star Wars campaign going, I was the only one who wanted to play a Jedi. Everyone else wanted to be some variation of the "Scruffy Nerfherder", or a bounty Hunter type of some kind.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would even argue that the regular folks who do the work behind the scenes, so that the Chosen One can do his thing, are even more heroic. They don't have "Space Magic"(tm) so they have even less chance of succeeding. They suffer more. They die more. They have less hope, but still do what they must. For every Jedi that you see suffer and die, in the original six movies, there are thousands of regular folks who did too.

Rather interestingly back in the day, when we had a regular WEG Star Wars campaign going, I was the only one who wanted to play a Jedi. Everyone else wanted to be some variation of the "Scruffy Nerfherder", or a bounty Hunter type of some kind.

I played WEG Star Wars. It made a pretty good stab at balancing the Scruffy Nerfherder archetype against jedi PCs, so everyone was equally ridiculously heroic and plot armoured.

 

[MarkB]

That's hardly a new thing, have you seen Where Eagles Dare?

Oh, absolutely - a seriously underrated action espionage movie that deserves to stand alongside anything in the Bond franchise. And even most other Star Wars movies have this transition from small-scale character-based drama to huge space / ground battles, which makes it weird that Rogue One gets called out on it.

Which is tonally more Star Wars than Andor is, although Rogue One managed to retain Star Warsishness better than Andor.

Star Wars is as much a setting as a tone, and while Andor is tonally different than the movies, it fits perfectly well within the setting.