D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[Chaosmancer]

While you are correct, you are also wrong.

You need not undo all damage to be an effective healer. Actually it is very frustrating if healing in general outperformes damage dealing. This will just make fights very unsatisfying.

What you need to do is heal at the right time. Sometimes healing 10 damage is enough to keep your tank from going down from the next 30 damage.
The poison condition might be irrelevant to the tank.

AKA Whack-a-Mole.

That's literally WHY the whack-a-mole problem exists, because you are just buying one more round. But if your tank has taken 10 damage, then healing them 10 damage AT ANY POINT could keep them going down from the next 30 damage... because health is static unless damage or healing takes place.

The problem is that if you are t 50/60 hp, healing doesn't feel worth the action or spell slot. You aren't in danger. But if you are at 8/60 and the enemy can easily hit for 21 damage, healing 10 is pointless, it isn't enough. So you let them take that 20+ damage, then heal them next turn, preventing a chunk of damage.


Now, you are sort of correct about too much healing being frustrating, but there are limits on this. For example, being able to stop a single monsters turn isn't going to drag on the fight if there is one healer and multiple monsters. And if you have a party full of dedicated healers... then yes, out-healing the damage is their strategy and it should be viable to attempt. And if they get frustrated with it... well, they are the ones implementing the strategy.

 

[Chaosmancer]

We use the lowest form of non magical healing, which works well for us. In that context, I find magical healing quite lacklustre, especially compared to paladin laying on hands (which in my view should just be free cure wounds/lesser restoration proficiency bonus times per day plus Charisma bonus). I allow an extra die of healing so baseline is 2d8+wisdom instead.

I've been considering a change to allow players to choose to spend hit dice when healed. Up to the level of the spell.

So, a level 1 cure wounds can be 1d8+3, but then the Fighter can also spend a hit die and heal an extra 1d10+3. It gives a little more flexibility and healing, without removing the costs associated with them.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't see anywhere in the Choldrith stat block that says they inflict the Poisoned condition. All I see is their dagger doing additional poison damage.

I was going off memory and remembered they were spider creatures.

Substitute wyverns/snakes/ Erinyes or any other creature that can do exactly what I describe if you feel the need to be pendantic about it.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't think this has been done yet:

What are the spells that are missing on the spell lists?

Here are the cantrips:

Spoiler

Acid Splash (a)
Blade Ward (a)
Chill Touch (a)
Dancing Lights (a)
Druidcraft (p)
Fire Bolt (a)
Friends (a)
Guidance (d, p)
Light (a, d)
Mage Hand (a)
Mending (a, p)
Message (a, p)
Minor Illusion (a)
Poison Spray (a, p)
Produce Flame (p)
Prestidigitation (a)
Ray of Frost (a)
Resistance (d, p)
Sacred Flame (d)
Shillelagh (p)
Shocking Grasp (a)
Spare the Dying (d, p)
Thaumaturgy (d)
Thorn Whip (p)
True Strike (a)
Vicious Mockery (a)

17 Arcane (7 combat, not counting True Strike)
6 Divine (1 combat)
7 Primal (4 combat)

What's missing? (excluding Ravnica-only spells, etc.)

• OPTIMIZED SPELLS: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, Mind Sliver. Each of these is really strong, and may be kept out or (in a later package) nerfed.
• ELEMENTAL SPELLS: Control Flames, Gust, Mold Earth, Shape Water. Don't know why these would be excluded necessarily, but they could be made available to an elemental-themed Sorcerer, perhaps.
• DAMAGING SPELLS: Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Lightning Lure, Magic Stone, Sword Burst, Thunder Clap. There's flavour in all of these, but I do not think removing them will be particularly felt. I know people liked the minor terrain control of Create Bonfire. I personally only miss Magic Stone, which gave a ranged partner for Shillelagh.
• OTHERS: Eldritch Blast, Primal Savagery. My guess is eldritch blast is being changed into a core feature for the Warlock, and so won't technically be a spell. Possibly Primal Savagery is being usurped by the Shifter in MotM, but it might also be available only to Barbarians or a fighter subclass.

Almost all of these (excepting Eldritch Blast?) were later additions in any case, in Tahsa or Xanathar.

If I were suggesting changes, I would add Magic Stone (primal) and another divine spell that allows an attack roll (not a save, as Sacred Flame).

I think this is mostly because they were majority spells from other sources, and they are only listing the PHB spells. Eldritch Blast is confirmed to show up in Mage Playtest

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'd also add, that healing has 100% hit rate, while the attack has not...

... and if the tank is a barbarian, damage is reduced by a factor of 2.

And a healing spell costs a per day resource, while a monster's attack does not. And if the person being healed is one of twelve other classes, or is a barbarian who is not raging, then that factor of two does not apply.

And since we are in a nitpicky mood, I'l also add that healing spells cannot critically hit and double their output.


We could go over every single thing that damage and healing can and cannot do, but that doesn't exactly address the point.

 

[Chaosmancer]

1 magic missile: 3d4+3 damage, average 10.5

1 cure wounds: 1d8+3, average 7.5

1'd say, upcast to level 2?

I don't say, you are totally off, but healing should not be too good.

Sure, but what is too good? Magic Missile has low 1st level spell damage output, because it is a guaranteed hit, and you still need a 2nd level cure wounds to heal a 1st level Magic Missile,

Compare to other 1st level damage

Burning Hands: 3d6 per target, average 10.5. This is potentially between 15 and 31.5 damage. And if you assume three targets, it could be between three and six level 1 Cure Wounds to heal it all.

Guiding Bolt is 4d6 or an average of 14, that is two 1st level cure wounds, or a 3rd level cure wounds to heal.



If a single casting could undo multiple turns of damage for multiple party members, maybe it would be too good, but we are struggling to get better than a single target's damage from another single target.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure, but what is too good? Magic Missile has low 1st level spell damage output, because it is a guaranteed hit, and you still need a 2nd level cure wounds to heal a 1st level Magic Missile,

Compare to other 1st level damage

Burning Hands: 3d6 per target, average 10.5. This is potentially between 15 and 31.5 damage. And if you assume three targets, it could be between three and six level 1 Cure Wounds to heal it all.

Guiding Bolt is 4d6 or an average of 14, that is two 1st level cure wounds, or a 3rd level cure wounds to heal.



If a single casting could undo multiple turns of damage for multiple party members, maybe it would be too good, but we are struggling to get better than a single target's damage from another single target.

I don't say it is good enough. This is why I suggest allowing to spend hit dice, when you are healed (not unlike 4e, where you spend a healing surge). This way you get meaningful healing without dragging out fights forever.

Healing needs to be handled with care.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

AKA Whack-a-Mole.

No. Whack a Mole is healing after the tank goes down. I spoke about healing before they go down. This is usually better for the tank's action economy.

I have not encountered whack-a-mole healing in 8 years of play, but hey, maybe I am doing it wrong.

 

[Clint_L]

Most optimizers claim (correctly) that "whack a mole" is the most efficient use of healing resources in 5e, which intentionally keeps healing as a losing battle against damage. Obviously, if there is a situation where a character will miss their turn at a key moment you try to prevent it, but in general using Healing Word after someone goes down is much, much more efficient in terms of action economy and resource management than trying to keep them on their feet.

I will happily argue that Healing Word is the most powerful spell in 5e, in terms of actual impact on how the game is played.

 

[James Gasik]

Most optimizers claim (correctly) that "whack a mole" is the most efficient use of healing resources in 5e, which intentionally keeps healing as a losing battle against damage. Obviously, if there is a situation where a character will miss their turn at a key moment you try to prevent it, but in general using Healing Word after someone goes down is much, much more efficient in terms of action economy and resource management than trying to keep them on their feet.

I will happily argue that Healing Word is the most powerful spell in 5e, in terms of actual impact on how the game is played.

I hate using Healing Word. Even back in 4e, when it was far more powerful, guaranteed to heal a little more than 25% of your total health, I refused to engage in "whack-a-mole" shenanigans unless desperate.

Too often, I'd throw out one of my 2 encounter heals on a Striker who might as well be naked for as terrible as their AC was, they'd get up, throw out more damage without even thinking of using second wind or drinking a potion or anything that would prevent them from taking more damage. Then the enemy would flatten them again, and they'd cry to me for heals.

We were playing a D&D Encounters season, the Shadowfell one, uh, Dark Legacy of Evard, I think it was. I was trying out the new Death Priest- my Dwarven Priest of Dumathoin, Toric Azyur. In the first session, the Blackguard was basically one-shot by these weird shadow minions that, if they hit with their attack, melded with your shadow and stopped being monsters, instead becoming an instance of ongoing 2 necrotic damage (if you made the save, they were ejected and became monsters again). So we're doing what we can to kill these things, and the Rogue drops.

I heal him, he gets up, he falls again.

He begs for another heal, and I looked at the player and said "I don't have the resources to spend healing you. I have one heal left, and that's for the Fighter."

I still remember how his eyes got wide and he said "but, but, you have to heal me, you're a Cleric!"

"Nope, sorry. Second Wind or something next time."

5e Healing Word is even more ridiculous, as often it results in you being so weak that a goblin could take you out with a thrown rock. So I refuse to prepare healing word, as I feel it's just a horrible waste of a spell slot.

The fact that Cure Wounds is also rather woeful in healing people hasn't escaped me, of course, but at least you might survive the next attack!