D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure, it needs to be handled with care, but it also needs to be improved. However, many people claim that it is already too powerful and actually needs to be nerfed. So, clearly there are a lot of disconnects going on in the discussion around healing.

I think, too powerful is mostly used with overpowered healing abilities like the unnerfed healing spirit, not cure wounds...
Maybe the lowere end needs to be improved a bit, the high end (at low level) ab bit nerfed...

 

[Stalker0]

Most optimizers claim (correctly) that "whack a mole" is the most efficient use of healing resources in 5e, which intentionally keeps healing as a losing battle against damage. Obviously, if there is a situation where a character will miss their turn at a key moment you try to prevent it, but in general using Healing Word after someone goes down is much, much more efficient in terms of action economy and resource management than trying to keep them on their feet.

I will happily argue that Healing Word is the most powerful spell in 5e, in terms of actual impact on how the game is played.

Something that is important to remember. Technically, the delay action DOES NOT exist in 5e. Other than a readied action, there is no way move things around in the initiative order.

So while yes you could wait for a player to drop and then heal them, but if any monsters go between the dropped player and the cleric, they can walk on over, hit the player twice in melee....and instantly kill them.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's why I think healing word is broken and bad for the game. With healing word readily available, it is very, very hard for characters to die.

If having a healer in the party doesn't make it very very hard for characters to die, what's the point of a healer?

 

[Chaosmancer]

If the target is at low single digit hit points when you cast the spell, that's true. However it is often cast before that point when the 1d8+3 can give you enough extra hit points that when combined with your own can keep you up for another round.

Sure, if the enemy is dealing 21 damage, and you have 16 hp, and you can heal them for 7 hp, you've bought a round. A round you could have equally bought when they had only lost 10 hp and still have 60 to 90 hp left.

Having healing be the most useless when it is most logical to apply is bizarre.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think, too powerful is mostly used with overpowered healing abilities like the unnerfed healing spirit, not cure wounds...
Maybe the lowere end needs to be improved a bit, the high end (at low level) ab bit nerfed...

The unnerfed healing spirit is the one we use in our games. It is adequate. Certainly not overpowered. The high-end of healing is barely at the level I would want it. It should not be nerfed.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The unnerfed healing spirit is the one we use in our games. It is adequate. Certainly not overpowered. The high-end of healing is barely at the level I would want it. It should not be nerfed.

The unnerfed healing spirit is totally busted. If you don´t think dancing around the spirit is more than dumb*, ok.
The nerfed one is also dumb. Just not good enough.
I think the best thing is just scrap this spell. It does not fullfill any role. It is either totally rules lawyer expolit or just a bad spell. chose one.

*because it is just way more powerful than any other spell and uses the congaline mechanic which is totally dumb. If you want healing to be more useful, just make all spells better and don´t rely on mechanical exploits.

 

[James Gasik]

I do recall a combat where healing word and "pop up" healing didn't work very well. We were up against Magmin, who, if they hit you, light you on fire, causing you to take d6 (3) fire damage at the end of your turn unless you use your action to put yourself out.

So player goes down to the 2d6 fire damage of the Magmin's attack. At the end of their turn, they automatically fail a death save due to the d6 fire damage. It turns out that it's possible for a level 1 Healing Word to not heal enough hit points to prevent the d6 from knocking you back out again at the end of your turn, thus instead of having a full turn after being healed, you had to put yourself out, at which point a Magmin can easily knock you back down again.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, if the enemy is dealing 21 damage, and you have 16 hp, and you can heal them for 7 hp, you've bought a round. A round you could have equally bought when they had only lost 10 hp and still have 60 to 90 hp left.

Unless you're psychic, you have no idea when they are at 60-90 hit points if they will ever hit 7, so it would be dumb to cast the spell then. You do it when it could actually make the difference.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If having a healer in the party doesn't make it very very hard for characters to die, what's the point of a healer?

Making sure they don't go down in the first place? I'd like to buff healing a bit, or at least have them scale better with spell level. Cure wounds can easily start at 2d8+wis and add 2d8 per spell level. But as I said, I'd rather have them unlock the characters ability to spend healing surges mid battle.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The unnerfed healing spirit is totally busted. If you don´t think dancing around the spirit is more than dumb*, ok.
The nerfed one is also dumb. Just not good enough.
I think the best thing is just scrap this spell. It does not fullfill any role. It is either totally rules lawyer expolit or just a bad spell. chose one.

*because it is just way more powerful than any other spell and uses the congaline mechanic which is totally dumb. If you want healing to be more useful, just make all spells better and don´t rely on mechanical exploits.

There are a lot of different angles here, all tossed together like they are the same thing.

1) No one, to my knowledge, has every claimed that the Healing Spirit spell is busted in Combat. You also can't congo-line in combat. Not without the kind of shenanigans which make the need for that much healing... questionable.

2) It does fulfill a role. It is a Heal over Time spell for the Primal casters, increasing their ability to heal beyond just cure wounds and healing word. It was also a better healing spell for Rangers, who greatly benefited from it. Those are plentiful in terms of role.

2a) Before complaining about it making Rangers too good of a healer, note that the Paladin gets Aura of Vitality, which could be compared favorably to the spell 2d6 per round instead of 1d6, costs a bonus action, but just has to be within 30 ft of the front-line (where most damage is taken) instead of in a specific 5ft square.

3) It is more powerful than other healing spells of the same level (if used out of combat and targeting multiple creatures), sure, it is. I also think just about every single healing spell is too weak. Therefore, arguments that this spell is stronger than the others isn't a convincing argument for me. I want more healing spells that are stronger than what we have. Instead of nerfing or banning healing spirit, I would prefer to keep it and raise the other spells to a comparable level.


The most powerful thing I've ever seen the spell do, in actual play, was heal a barbarian and my druid who got wrecked in a combat, back to full, out of combat. And again... shouldn't using one of my most powerful healing spells allow for that? That's why I was playing a druid focused on healing.

Making sure they don't go down in the first place?

So, instead of making it incredibly difficult for PCs to die, you want healers to make sure they don't drop to 0 hp and risk dying... Isn't this a bit like saying that you don't want a cup of water, you want a cup of Dihydrogen Monoxide?

I'd like to buff healing a bit, or at least have them scale better with spell level. Cure wounds can easily start at 2d8+wis and add 2d8 per spell level. But as I said, I'd rather have them unlock the characters ability to spend healing surges mid battle.

Don't disagree with any of this.