D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[Asisreo]

Paladins absolutely can use all their options with a ranged attack. Divine Smite now works on weapon attacks. Barbarians can't, but they can use them with thrown weapons. Also Rangers can use all their options with a ranged attack, weird you didn't talk about them.

And, I'm sorry, was the standard "at least you are contributing" or was the standard "optimized"? Because you seem to be back peddling here.

Didn't realize Paladins had ranged attack support in the newer UA. Good for them. They didn't in 5e so that was my assumption.

The Ranger wasn't mentioned so I didn't bring them up, but yes, they also have good melee support (the default is ranged). Though they aren't as tough as the other classes to be dedicated frontliners just as well.

Um.... oh wow... they limited barbarians to melee only? That's stupid. Still, the standard wasn't "can use all of their abilities" the standard was "at least contribute" are you saying a barbarian with a Longbow is not contributing to the fight against the dragon?

To be honest, I've always thought that all martials should have a simple ranged option no matter what their build. So the barbarian is contributing. All I'm saying is that the fighter's contributions would be more effective in general due to their manuevers and weapon mastery.

My point is that having multiple weapons isn't some icky fiction that makes you look ridiculous. Sure, you look goofy with 20 weapons glued on you at all times, but there's certainly a middle ground.

A monk using a bow to attack isn't at their best. They aren't at their baseline. But they are contributing. That was your standard.

Yeah, and I'm not saying they aren't, just that the fighter does it better. (So far. They might change the monk to allow ranged attacks on their ki skills as well).

 

[deganawida]

This is what we're trying to avoid:

View attachment 283418

I'd love to fight this guy. Not only is the armor completely impractical, but this dude wouldn't be able to swing a sword effectively.

 

[Remathilis]

 

[Stalker0]

deleted, already mentioned

 

[Stalker0]

On the push versus spike growth, isn't there a clause or ruling somewhere that most forced movement effects don't trigger spell damage for movement through the area?

It only works if the "targets moves through the area" not "if you move the target through the area". That's one reason that something like command can be really useful, because the target is actually moving themselves.

 

[mellored]

The video comes out next week this was just a preview for patreon subscribers. Happy to link to it once it goes live to general public. I was surprised, and so was Treantmonk himself, to see how boosted they are and how much of that boost came with how the Champion interacts with other rules in unexpected ways. A lot of it would be really hard to notice if you were just reading the playtest class itself in isolation.

Also, these new weapon mastery rules can really up your damage if you have a lot of attacks in a round.

What i missed was that you could chose graze after you saw the attack roll. I'm not sure that's intended, but seems to be RAW as of now.

Also, he said new fighter with advantage is 70 DPR (40% more). Not 70% more.

Either way, it's still more than the -5/+10. Just more damage in general.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I never said it was more control, or gave you a new ability.
I only said they scaled.

This is the Champion fighter. It's supposed to be simple to play, not change tactics as you gain levels.

It may not be exciting to you (or me), but it's the most popular class.

If you want to push further, shoot around corners, save allies from at the last second... check out the warlock.

Or perhaps the battle master will have high level maneuvers.

I don't care if it is the Champion Fighter or Phoenix God Ascended Fighter, it is a fighter class, and the fighter class chasis should scale to do more than just "I attack more". This is the same complaint leveraged at 2014 fighters, other than Indomitable at level 9, everything they get is the same. More attacks, more second wind, more feats... but that's it.

We don't need to settle for "but it is the simple fighter" because I'm talking about the Fighter as a class, and we don't need a class that never gets new abilities.

 

[mellored]

We don't need to settle for "but it is the simple fighter" because I'm talking about the Fighter as a class, and we don't need a class that never gets new abilities.

A lot of people, most of which aren't on the forums, disagree. It's popular because it's simple.

Don't get me wrong. I still want a warlord. But we need the simple option, and this is it for this edition.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Didn't realize Paladins had ranged attack support in the newer UA. Good for them. They didn't in 5e so that was my assumption.

I wondered if that was the case. Yes, Paladins get cantrips and ranged attack support now.

The Ranger wasn't mentioned so I didn't bring them up, but yes, they also have good melee support (the default is ranged). Though they aren't as tough as the other classes to be dedicated frontliners just as well.

They aren't? Medium Armor, Shields, and d10 HD, along with the ability to turn invisible and give themselves free Temp HP... they seem pretty tough. My apologies though, I thought I had brought them up.

To be honest, I've always thought that all martials should have a simple ranged option no matter what their build. So the barbarian is contributing. All I'm saying is that the fighter's contributions would be more effective in general due to their manuevers and weapon mastery.

My point is that having multiple weapons isn't some icky fiction that makes you look ridiculous. Sure, you look goofy with 20 weapons glued on you at all times, but there's certainly a middle ground.


Yeah, and I'm not saying they aren't, just that the fighter does it better. (So far. They might change the monk to allow ranged attacks on their ki skills as well).

This is changing the argument. You claimed that fighters were "well-rounded specialists" who can "drop their primary mode of attack and switch when it isn't effective." Your example was pulling a bow to fight a flying dragon.

And that is something every single martial can do. Heck, if you have Sharpshooter, you don't even need to drop your bow in melee and so you are at max efficiency for the Ranger, Paladin, and Fighter. So, if this "switching it up when absolutely needed" is the fighter identity... we have a problem of that being a martial identity in general.

 

[Chaosmancer]

On the push versus spike growth, isn't there a clause or ruling somewhere that most forced movement effects don't trigger spell damage for movement through the area?

It only works if the "targets moves through the area" not "if you move the target through the area". That's one reason that something like command can be really useful, because the target is actually moving themselves.

I remember there were exceptions to that (or people just ignored the ruling)