D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[Minigiant]

The PHB discusses how fighters are "well-rounded specialists."

What that means is that you're supposed to lean into your primary mode of attack, but when that isn't effective anymore, then you switch to whatever is effective.

So even if you took GWM and didn't take sharpshooter, you can still shoot a flying dragon with a longbow. True, you're not at your best, maybe not even at your baseline, but you're at least contributing.

If you have a shield of missile attraction, then you can have a mundane longsword and play the role of a proper tank against ranged attackers. Same with magic users and a spellguard shield.

That's not being well rounded. You're not doing well outside your specialization, You are just not Wizard-Terrible at it.

And with how Extra Attack is handed out like candy, there are over 5 other classes who are more well rounded than the Fighter.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The PHB discusses how fighters are "well-rounded specialists."

What that means is that you're supposed to lean into your primary mode of attack, but when that isn't effective anymore, then you switch to whatever is effective.

So even if you took GWM and didn't take sharpshooter, you can still shoot a flying dragon with a longbow. True, you're not at your best, maybe not even at your baseline, but you're at least contributing.

Every martial can do this. Barbarians can do this, Paladins can do this. Monks can do this. This isn't unique to fighter's in any way, shape, or form. Every single one of them can stop using their melee weapons and grab a bow (most of them can grab a longbow, except for the monk) and they won't be "at their best" but they will at least be contributing.

If this is the Fighter identity, we have a problem.

 

[mellored]

If they wanted Push, they could have gotten Push at level 1 and Push never improves.

At level 1 you can push 10' per turn
At level 17, you can push 40' per turn

Maybe that's not "new" but it does scale with more attacks.

 

[Asisreo]

Every martial can do this. Barbarians can do this, Paladins can do this. Monks can do this. This isn't unique to fighter's in any way, shape, or form. Every single one of them can stop using their melee weapons and grab a bow (most of them can grab a longbow, except for the monk) and they won't be "at their best" but they will at least be contributing.

If this is the Fighter identity, we have a problem.

Barbarians, Paladins, and Monks can't use all of their options with ranged attacks. All else being exactly equal, a fighter is better with a bow than any of the others even without a single push for optimization in that direction.

A barbarian can't add their rage damage to their longbow and they don't get the option to gain a mastery in it. A paladin can't smite with a ranged weapon. And while we haven't seen the new monk yet, we can extrapolate that they will also not be able to use their martial arts at range or their other ki-based abilities (if ki is making a return, which...it will at least on a conceptual level).

A fighter can use all 4 of their extra attacks with bows. They can use their manuevers with bows. They can take weapon mastery with bows.

Unlike the other classes, all of the fighter's abilities are completely agnostic to their combat style.

 

[Minigiant]

Here's a Q

Wouldn't having to manage 1 weapon with 2 Masteries be easier that managing 2 primaary weapons with 1 Mastery each?

A battleaxe with Flex, Push and Topple is easier to manage for a new player or tired player than a Batleaxe with topple and a Longsword with Flex, and a Warhammer with Push.

I mean a level 7 Fighter has 4 Mastery. Assuming melee that allows Mastery in 3 primary melee weapons and mastery in 1 ranged weapon

Y not this

• Battleaxe: +7 1d8+6 damage plus Target is knocked Prone
• Battleaxe: +7 1d10+6 damage
• Battleaxe: +7 1d8+6 damage plus Target is pushed back 10 feet
• Longbow: +5 1d8+2 damage plus Target's Speed is decreased by 10 feet

over that

• Battleaxe: +7 1d8+6 damage plus Target is knocked Prone
• Longsword: +7 1d10+6 damage
• Warhammer: +7 1d8+6 damage plus Target is pushed back 10 feet
• Longbow: +5 1d8+2 damage plus Target's Speed is decreased by 10 feet

 

[Eubani]

I would like to see the Fighter interact with Mastery earlier and use both masteries at 13. On top of this I would like to see at least 2 out of combat abilities. Also something to make up for downgraded damage feats.

 

[mellored]

Also something to make up for downgraded damage feats.

Masteries do make up for the downgraded damage feats.

Vex giving you advantage, means you deal more damage. Or the extra attack from cleave. Or push into a spiked growth.

Flex is kind of bad though.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I would like to see the Fighter interact with Mastery earlier and use both masteries at 13. On top of this I would like to see at least 2 out of combat abilities. Also something to make up for downgraded damage feats.

Towards your "out of combat" comment, I hope that after the big class playtest push to test important class/subclass abilities, the designers grant every class 3 flavorful ribbon abilities to add within the first 10 levels. Round them all out little bit and give some fun tweaks. Also, I hope they keep modified versions of the Trait/Bonds/Flaws, or other inspiration generators.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I am still a firm believer that even after the changes made with this playtest that unless they give all fighters something like three maneuvers known and two superiority dice as well as add the out of combat manuvers that were added into Tasha's the fighter just falls short from what they need to be.

 

[Minigiant]

Masteries do make up for the downgraded damage feats.

Vex giving you advantage, means you deal more damage. Or the extra attack from cleave. Or push into a spiked growth.

Flex is kind of bad though.

However its in the wrong way.

1. Vex is only for Finesse or Ranged Weapons and OP
2. Cleave only works with Heavy weapons and relies on being ina mob of foes
3. Graze is weak
4. Push relies on a feature not part of the class.
5. Flex is bad.

The problem with 2014 5e's method is that it relied on a feat for damage. So every warrior class had a feat tax of one.
The benefit of the Playtest masteries is that Fighters start with 3. So spending one for damage is fine.

There should be a damage mastery for every style

1. Archery: Fixed Vex
2. Dueling: Fixed Flex
3. Finesse: Fixed Vex
4. Great Weapon: Fixed Graze
5. Two Weapon: Fixed Nick