D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[W'rkncacnter]

I will echo this.

sure you don't wanna ecmo it?

 

[Incenjucar]

This debate about Martials has raged as long as there has been Dnd. Its always been split between those who want high level Martials like Captain America, and those that want Martials more like Thor.

But everyone....there is no fight here, because WOTC has chosen a side, they are team Cap. So you might get them to budge a bit on the power level of martials, and you can get in a few spellcaster nerfs, but there will not be any 4e like martial manuevers where fighters are suddenly doing the utterly fantastical, its just not going to happen. And any debate trying to get it to that point is just wasted electrons.

I think the best we could hope for beyond what they are doing, is maybe get an extra Epic Boon or something....which is a pretty nice something. But in no scenario are you going to see massive sweeping changes, its just not going to happen.

Captain America would be a huge improvement. Cap could take down a dragon solo, easily.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Captain America would be a huge improvement. Cap could take down a dragon solo, easily.

Cap is a great Warlord.

 

[Incenjucar]

Cap is a great Warlord.

And then you have Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

And then you have Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond.

the lazylord to end all lazylords...

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Cap is a great Warlord.

Cap is a Fighter/Battlemaster with military leadership abilities.
Widow is a Rogue/Assassin with military leadership abilities.
Hawkeye is a Ranger/Hunter with military leadership abilities.
Black Panther is a Monk/Way of the Panther with military leadership abilities.
So many heroes are a [enter class here] who can lead, inspire, and command tactically. Doesn't make them Warlords.

 

[Stalker0]

Cap is a Fighter/Battlemaster with military leadership abilities.
Widow is a Rogue/Assassin with military leadership abilities.
Hawkeye is a Ranger/Hunter with military leadership abilities.
Black Panther is a Monk/Way of the Panther with military leadership abilities.
So many heroes are a [enter class here] who can lead, inspire, and command tactically. Doesn't make them Warlords.

To be fair, narratively cap is often portrayed as the “ultimate leader” in comics. Like super power brings will let him take lead because he’s just “the best leader”.

So if anyone MCU wise got to a warlord it would be Cap

 

[doctorbadwolf]

To the idea that a martial character should not be able to do anything beyond X because it would have to be magic, I salute that idea with all the disrespect that it deserves. How about in a multiverse where Good, Evil and Neutrality are active if not sentient forces could they be what is empowering high level martials to go beyond the norm without magic.

I mean…you’re describing magic, though.

Like…cosmic forces bestowing power that allow you to ravens beyond normal mortal limits…is magic.

 

[Incenjucar]

Cap is a Fighter/Battlemaster with military leadership abilities.
Widow is a Rogue/Assassin with military leadership abilities.
Hawkeye is a Ranger/Hunter with military leadership abilities.
Black Panther is a Monk/Way of the Panther with military leadership abilities.
So many heroes are a [enter class here] who can lead, inspire, and command tactically. Doesn't make them Warlords.

Generally inspiring people is just being a person. Providing moment-to-moment tactical guidance is a specific skill set. Paralyze everything but his mouth and ears and he's still incredibly powerful as long as he can talk to a friend.

Again, Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond is another example, along with any other "voice in the head" characters like Oracle, Madame Web, various telepaths, Void from Wildcats, etc, - all able to be warlords without even being physically present, with varying degrees of combat skill in person as well. Captain America is just a very action-focused leader or a multiclass. Eddie Brock as Venom, not so much.

 

[Bluenose]

This is absurd hyperbole with no purpose. Fighters get high level abilities. The high level fighter could even still get abilities that allow them to bypass some challenges. They just can’t be overtly magical, unless they’re abilities for a subclass that is overtly magical.

Not hyperbole, a matter of opinion. What abilities do you see the Fighter getting in the playtest that are actually high-powered? The peak of of weapon mastery is combining two abilities that you can have at 1st level; it's pathetic to pretend that makes it something that needs to be kept till past 10th level.

And just to be clear, “comparable” as a matter of type here, not scale. If you can design some actually martial abilities that are comparable in power level to high level spells, I’m all for it. They just cannot be spells in disguise, or otherwise overtly magical.

So, something like a spell that combines the effect of two 1st level spells - let's say Ice Storm combining Grease and Burning Hands for difficult terrain and damage - is an example of a spell that Wizards should be waiting till 13th levvel to pick up? Because clearly the actually martial abilities that combine that way are so awesome that they need to wait till higher levels, so the actually magical ones should be treated in a comparable way.

Hercules can’t blow up mountains. Chu Chulain couldn’t cut one in half with his sword. And these are deified mythical figures.

No, casters having strange and terrible power is fantasy.

I really don’t care. There will always be such complaints. If you stayed truly martial in 4e it still happened. Because “guy with sword” has to do different kinds of things than “sorcerer”.

Hercules, on one of his adventures, lifted the world.

And as PF2 proved, the wizard fanboys will complain endlessly and talk about how the game is ruined if they find anything where they're inferior to the Fighters.