D&D (2024) D&D 5.11 - the time of big change is over

[HammerMan]

I thought 18 was the cap in AD&D that you could not get a 19.

Yea and no. Natural 18 was cap, although I heard many use a house rule that the stat you got your +1 to could go to 19. But this was magic
My human fighter got dropped in god liquid and almost died. I got an infusion of blood from a half dwarf half god and that blood plus that liquid gave me bonuses to 3 stats at random each one was roll 1d6 for what stat then roll 1d4 but a 1 is a -1 a 2 was a +1 a 3 was a +2 and 4 was +2 but roll another stat too with that orginal d6
I can’t remember 1 roll but I rolled 2 3s and got +4 to my con then a reroll that got me a +1 to Cha

 

[TwoSix]

There is a difference between being able to play both versions and not promoting the newer rules at all.

I would expect more balance, that some might counteract that by using an older version is no reason not to

I admit it's a subtle difference, but I think it's important to send the message that the rules are "enhanced", rather than that they're being "corrected".

A general understanding that mixing all the rules together might cause occasional volatility is fine, of course.

 

[tetrasodium]

I thought 18 was the cap in AD&D that you could not get a 19.

It's already been mentioned but getting high con did a lot of things it doesn't anymore & didn't make you kinda immune to a wide range of saves. In no particular order:

• Con 19/20 gave +1 to poison saves. It then scaled to +2/+3/+4 at 21 23 & 25 respectively
• Every point of con up to 18 when it hit 100% provided your resurrection survival chances
• Similar with your system shock chances but slightly different scaling & a long stretch at 99%
• You got +1hp/level at 15 con & that improved at 16/17/18/19/21/24
• Then finally the huge difference that made it really matter is regeneration. Turns were ten minutes each & at con 20 you started getting back 1hp/6 turns improving to 1/5 1/4 1/3 etc for each additional point of con.

Because of that tiny but meaningful feeling regen it was not uncommon for a tankish player to be given some way of bumping that magically if they already had high con.

 

[Yaarel]

yeah that isn't what I liked...

I liked the variability. I have +2 cha yeah but two more +1s anywhere means I can be good at anything... then I can pick a free skill or trade that out for a spell (High elf cantrip) or trade that out for a swim speed.

Any 2024 species can have a +2 and +1. According to UA Character Origins they come from the background.

I see what you mean about the extra "halffeat" +1. Maybe there is a way to do this.

For example, in my thread "Mix multispecies traits", organizes the traits of each 2024 species into half-feats. There are three default halffeats, while a player can instead choose any three halffeats from the species when creating their character. If the character is multispecies, the player can choose any three halffeats from either or both species.

When I think about that extra +1 ability score improvement, it seems to me a Human trait relating to the biological specialization to learn and adapt (and survive and flourish). So I added the "Adept Dabbler" as a Human halffeat that players can choose when creating a Human character. Likewise, a player can select the Adept Dabbler halffeat when building a Human-Elf character.

This also means Human Orc characters, Human Dwarf characters, and so on, might also have the Adapt Dabbler trait from their Human parentage. That feels ok to me. The important part here, a player can build a 2024 Half Elf character with this character concept.

I mean I can play an elf and refluff it or I can play a human (or anything else) and refluff it...

how is that?

I mean, part of the D&D traditional flavor of a "Half Elf" is to be a victim of racism, tho most of it would probably be called "microaggressions" today. This kind of D&D racism was ... mostly ... narrative flavor and without mechanical support.

There was a "Racial Preferences" table in the 1e Players Handbook. It weirdly and asymmetrically required Half-Elves to "prefer" the Elf race and only "tolerate" the Human race, but then the Elves only had a "good" relationship with Half Elves and would only "tolerate" the Human race.

The racists of the D&D Elf traditions derives from this 1e table. Even without a table, this racism flavor self-perpetuated and lingered in memes, even reaching into 2024 5e with an actual race description about feeling "unwelcome". In our day and era, this propagation of overt racism (even when fantasy racism) feels off and inappropriate.

I see no way that 2024 would design racist mechanics or even flavor for the 2024 5e game rules.

That said, the "Misunderstood" "Misfit" who finds a way to succeed is a classic trope in many different contexts, that can work well as a background. Personally, I kinda like the paradoxical name "Popular Misfit" for the background.

I also miss the ribbons of background features

Youre right.

It didnt occur to me that what I call the "narrative asset" is missing from the 2024 backgrounds.

These narrative assets remind me of the 13th Age "One Cool Thing".

I would like some way for a player to choose a "narrative asset" for their character. It would be without mechanics (and strictly without any combat applications). But it would directly affect the narrative outcome in any scenario where the "asset" becomes relevant.

 

[HammerMan]

• Every point of con up to 18 when it hit 100% provided your resurrection survival chances

In our games that % was a huge deal maybe more important then system shock

• Then finally the huge difference that made it really matter is regeneration. Turns were ten minutes each & at con 20 you started getting back 1hp/6 turns improving to 1/5 1/4 1/3 etc for each additional point of con.

And that was the dream First time someone told me you could start with a dwarf with a 20 con in 3e that is what I imagined. I was VERY disappointed in the new combined modifier and spell only charts

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Any 2024 species can have a +2 and +1. According to UA Character Origins they come from the background.

correct, 1 stat bump less.

I see what you mean about the extra "halffeat" +1. Maybe there is a way to do this.

yeah I guess they are half feats.

I mean, part of the D&D traditional flavor of a "Half Elf" is to be a victim of racism, tho most of it would probably be called "microaggressions" today. This kind of D&D racism was ... mostly ... narrative flavor and without mechanical support.

we haven't done that in years

I see no way that 2024 would design racist mechanics or even flavor for the 2024 5e game rules.

I agree and I think if anything that should be table to table.

It didnt occur to me that what I call the "narrative asset" is missing from the 2024 backgrounds.

These narrative assets remind me of the 13th Age "One Cool Thing".

yeah that is a good way to look at it, and I miss it.

I would like some way for a player to choose a "narrative asset" for their character.

I agree

 

[codo]

Just skimmed the thread, but having watched the video, I think Chris is (mostly) right.

He has a good point about the timeframes. Ha$bros is good about hiding the production end of things, with books magically appearing in stores and on DnDBeyond automagically it seems. But anyone who's shopped in the larger TTRPG marketplace knows that naughty word happens. Books take months to write, lay-out, art, edit, proofread, and more. And then they often take months to print, bind, and ship to the warehouse, for eventual journey to the customer. And crap happens – one of the publishers I work with just went through a very painful shipping process, worse than almost anything before (and I'm including the 18-month voyage from the print-shop to my garage for US fulfillment during the pandemic) – long story short, the books made it into the US, to the first warehouse but were then lost in the shipment from that warehouse to me. Amazingly frustrating.

Anyway, major changes need to stop soon. And 'what has gone before' will comfort a lot of the player base, and quiet those freaking out about a new edition. So, I'm likely out. 5e is safe now, and I can spend the next 20 years remixing it if I like. And Pathfinder Remaster sounds like my wishlist* for Pathfinder and the way forward.

---

* When I started talking about my proposed changes to my Pathfinder-stan friends, they pushed back HARD. One in particular was like 'Pathfinder players NEED alignment' and grumbled at the ideas of Proficiency Without Level, Static Defences, Checks for attack, and all that.

I tried to explain to him that new players would appreciate 'all rolls are Checks, roll 1d20 and add the number here' and find it less confusing. Of course, he's been playing fantasy adventure games since he was eight, and we're <ahem> years old now (let's just say we've got XP to spare).

They have a lot more time than you think. I don't know when you expect them to release the books, but I don't expect to see them earlier than late summer/fall. If I recall correctly they have stated it is only about a three month process from finalizing a book to printing it. That is one of the main reasons they print their books in the US instead of china. At that pace they can still playtest for another year for a fall release, in time for Christmas.

They don't need to wait until the playtest is finished to set the layout either. They already know over 90% of the books are going to be, and any changes they make won't be large enough to mess up the layout.

 

[Parmandur]

They have a lot more time than you think. I don't know when you expect them to release the books, but I don't expect to see them earlier than late summer/fall. If I recall correctly they have stated it is only about a three month process from finalizing a book to printing it. That is one of the main reasons they print their books in the US instead of china. At that pace they can still playtest for another year for a fall release, in time for Christmas.

They don't need to wait until the playtest is finished to set the layout either. They already know over 90% of the books are going to be, and any changes they make won't be large enough to mess up the layout.

Changes to rules won't necessitate any changes to art orders.

 

[Azzy]

They have a lot more time than you think. I don't know when you expect them to release the books, but I don't expect to see them earlier than late summer/fall. If I recall correctly they have stated it is only about a three month process from finalizing a book to printing it. That is one of the main reasons they print their books in the US instead of china. At that pace they can still playtest for another year for a fall release, in time for Christmas.

They don't need to wait until the playtest is finished to set the layout either. They already know over 90% of the books are going to be, and any changes they make won't be large enough to mess up the layout.

Yeah, not in my experience. Layout is a finicky and fragile thing that can sometimes go pants up at the slightest change. With as many features that are being playtested and thus being as up in the air as they are, there's no way to have more than the most basic layout survive that volatility.

 

[zedturtle]

They have a lot more time than you think. I don't know when you expect them to release the books, but I don't expect to see them earlier than late summer/fall. If I recall correctly they have stated it is only about a three month process from finalizing a book to printing it. That is one of the main reasons they print their books in the US instead of china. At that pace they can still playtest for another year for a fall release, in time for Christmas.

They don't need to wait until the playtest is finished to set the layout either. They already know over 90% of the books are going to be, and any changes they make won't be large enough to mess up the layout.

Those are (mostly) good points. I work primarily with European publishers, who do their printing locally (for them), and am used to the 'wait three months for the cargo ship to make it across the Pond' part of the process. Printing domestically for a mostly domestic distribution makes sense.

And, yes, you're likely right on intended timing – they'll want books in customers' hands before they head to college. But, of course, some part of that three month process must be getting into distributors' warehouses, then into game stores. Three months to print, bind, distribute, and merchandise the books seems very tight to me, and I wonder if there's some (intentional?) obfuscation of the process. Maybe it is three months from bindery being done until it is on the FLGS shelf?