D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Incenjucar]

Not a fan of explicit plot armor in games. Big fan of fantasy media. They are different things with different strengths to me.

Interesting. I prefer to play games that reflect fantasy media rather than defy and deconstruct them. Shouldn't the healing and damage rules be a lot harsher then, with infected wounds etc.?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Genetic lotto winner means you're the best human at everything, through chance coincidence of genetic factors. That's an explanation.

Perfected technique means you've learned something which, if beyond human, is by definition supernatural. That's an explanation.

Mysterious powers, even if unexplained (and I would hope they are eventually) gives you superhuman abilities. That's an explanation, albeit not a great one.

Radioactive spider bite is definitely an explanation, as is exposure to cosmic rays, "heavy water", finding a cool ring, or being a mutant

"I'm just that good", isn't an explanation, it's a catchphrase.

"I'm just that good" is also not what I said. What I said was "I'm just that strong/fast/skilled etc." Perhaps you think it's a po-tay-tos po-tah-tohs difference.

In any case, it seems you find these acceptable explanations.
‐---------------
Genetic Lotto Winner - I was born that way. "I'm just that x"

Perfected Technique - I trained like crazy. "I'm just that x"

Mysterious Powers - Suddenly I could just x, i dont know why. "I'm just that x"

Combinations of any of the above - "I'm just that x"
---‐---------------

But they all really boil down to "I'm just that x"

And that's fine.

The game only needs to care about what player characters can do. The players and the DMs can figure out why they can do it (if they feel that they need to).

 

[CreamCloud0]

I believe he's talking about the Thief of Legend Epic Destiny from 4e.

honestly i'm just talking about secondhand knowledge nothing specific 5e is the first edition i've properly gotten into

 

[Gammadoodler]

I do want to note that I can appreciate the value of narrative justifications for fantasy powers as a set of worldbuilding tools.

I like that there can be a whole portfolio of reasons for a character to gain the ability to do something fantastic. Demigods, dragon-touched, and demonspawn are all completely cromulent character concepts to me.

I simply do not think they need to be coded into the levelling mechanics of the game. I think that doing so limits the game unnecessarily.

Though.. with that said, I think it'd be interesting if the game baked more consideration into the specifics of how PCs get the power ups that they do. If, instead of leveling and getting whatever the book says they get, they could quest for powers.

You want to fly -
go see that alchemist or
perform x ritual at that temple,
bargain with that fey,
get x magic item from y enemy.

Like, if the concern with leveling is how we're handwaving the narrative, maybe we could just take a narrative approach instead.

 

[Yaarel]

Shouldn't the healing and damage rules be a lot harsher then, with infected wounds etc.?

In my games, any time the heroes get "Bloodied", bruises and scrapes happen. They need to use bandages depending on the damage type. The minor injuries take 2d6 days to completely heal. These could get infected. But normally these nonlethal injuries get waived, unless it would make an interesting story. After the heroes refresh to full hit points after a long rest, I do make a point to have NPCs comment about blackeyes and the like on the next day after the combat, to remind the players they are still recovering from injuries, even if only cosmetically. I have the "Cure Wounds" spell remove these residuals of battle, but a Healing Word doesnt.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Would a fighter who benefits from helpful accidents and circumstances due to Divine preference be okay plot armor.

I mean couldn't a warriors bonus HP be the gods of war, slaught, life, and death putting the warrior of their fantasy team or taking same day parlays of the gods of chance.

(jots down new idea)

Yeah, I like it. I'm not against cool stuff, I'm against contrivance without in-universe explanation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Interesting. I prefer to play games that reflect fantasy media rather than defy and deconstruct them. Shouldn't the healing and damage rules be a lot harsher then, with infected wounds etc.?

Yes, they should be, and in my favorite games they are.

 

[Yaarel]

Would a fighter who benefits from helpful accidents and circumstances due to Divine preference be okay plot armor.

I mean couldn't a warriors bonus HP be the gods of war, slaught, life, and death putting the warrior of their fantasy team or taking same day parlays of the gods of chance.

(jots down new idea)

Personally I would focus on the flavor of Fate and destiny, but similar idea.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"I'm just that good" is also not what I said. What I said was "I'm just that strong/fast/skilled etc." Perhaps you think it's a po-tay-tos po-tah-tohs difference.

In any case, it seems you find these acceptable explanations.
‐---------------
Genetic Lotto Winner - I was born that way. "I'm just that x"

Perfected Technique - I trained like crazy. "I'm just that x"

Mysterious Powers - Suddenly I could just x, i dont know why. "I'm just that x"

Combinations of any of the above - "I'm just that x"
---‐---------------

But they all really boil down to "I'm just that x"

And that's fine.

The game only needs to care about what player characters can do. The players and the DMs can figure out why they can do it (if they feel that they need to).

The part of your sentence prior to, "I'm just that x" is the important part to me.

 

[Incenjucar]

Yes, they should be, and in my favorite games they are.

While our tastes differ, I respect your consistency.