D&D (2024) D&D 5.11 - the time of big change is over

[Remathilis]

On the other other hand, they have dropped class groups, wildshape templates, paladin and ranger cantrips, ranged paladins,and more. This revision remains a moving target.

That's what I'm talking about. The larger changes, save bard spells and cunning action, got lost.

WotC designers have talked about twf and rogues fighting over bonus actions since Mearls was doing videos. Their chance to fix is a punt: Nick. The structure remains, just painted and wallpapered over.

I wasn't even wanting major changes. I actually figured the changes would be closer to what we're getting here. But I guess the last several packets set expectations that things that weren't being boo'd off stage were probably going to make it and it's clear the amount of spaghetti that stuck to the wall was minimal.

 

[TerraDave]

… it's clear the amount of spaghetti that stuck to the wall was minimal.

It’s jumpy, this way, that way, another way… but it is not yet minimal. And some of this will stick.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I am so confused as to who needed, absolutely NEEDED paladins to be melee only to the point of wanting an option taken away from others.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

To be perfectly honest? I think WotC is opting now to play it safer than they originally wanted to.

The D&D community has complained about several large bugbears in the 5e rules: short rest recharges being unreliable due DM fiat. Dual wielding costs a bonus action. Wild Shape being a shopping spree in the MM and any other book with monsters in it, Warlock magic being utterly incompatible with every other type of spellcasting in the game. Exhaustion being far too punishing. WotC put out a bunch of UAs that said, "we hear you" and then said "nevermind, we're keeping them as is, with MAYBE a few bits of errata". Even things that didn't score badly got tossed to the dumpster: unified subclass progression, prof bonus/day instead of SR or ability mod/day., epic boons at 20th level. The only major changes we're getting that literally weren't telegraphed in 2022 are weapon mastery and unified spell lists. Everything else is language clarification and adding/replacing class features.

WotC walked into the living room, decided that ugly half-wall between it and the kitchen needed to go, took all the furniture out of the room, and then, they just decided to paint the wall and put everything back. If they hadn't made a show about removing the half-wall in the first place, most people wouldn't have thought it was an option. Now I'm not overly mad: I like the changes they are making. But the fact they are backpedaling on so many design ideas at this point in design doesn't tell me this was based on player feedback as much as a desire to make sure this new PHB doesn't split the fanbase.

Anyway: this should be the death knell that this is anything resembling 5.5 or 6e: This is Tasha's 2.0.

Did you look at the updated rogue?

 

[Remathilis]

Did you look at the updated rogue?

I won't disagree that's a good improvement, but it's mostly just a little better than some of the Tasha's optional or alternative features. Even weapon mastery feels like it could have been an option added to an Everything book. Granted, designing it into the class itself is more elegant and will be better balanced, but it's simply just a new feature on the current rogue. It's not like sneak attack itself was changed to accommodate it.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I won't disagree that's a good improvement, but it's mostly just a little better than some of the Tasha's optional or alternative features. Even weapon mastery feels like it could have been an option added to an Everything book. Granted, designing it into the class itself is more elegant and will be better balanced, but it's simply just a new feature on the current rogue. It's not like sneak attack itself was changed to accommodate it.

That feels like you are moving the goalpost to me, but whatever’s

 

[Marandahir]

I am so confused as to who needed, absolutely NEEDED paladins to be melee only to the point of wanting an option taken away from others.

This. Also, Great Weapon Rangers (Andúril Aragorn anyone?).

There's no reason to limit these options. I also wish that Blessed Warrior and Druidic Warrior were in the PHB 5.24, too, but at least the new core is now 90% compatible with my Special Edition Rules Expansion set.

And ultimately, that's why this is 5.24, not 5.5E or 6E. It's next year's revision of the game we've been playing for a decade or more, and it's bigger changes than normal because it's the 50th anniversary. But it's not a compatibility-breaking change, and I'm so glad about that.

 

[Emberashh]

I am so confused as to who needed, absolutely NEEDED paladins to be melee only to the point of wanting an option taken away from others.

Niche protection taken to its logical conclusion. If there isn't already there will be those who will argue only one class gets to move; all others must have some other means of translating to a different location in space.

 

[tetrasodium]

To be perfectly honest? I think WotC is opting now to play it safer than they originally wanted to.

The D&D community has complained about several large bugbears in the 5e rules: short rest recharges being unreliable due DM fiat. Dual wielding costs a bonus action. Wild Shape being a shopping spree in the MM and any other book with monsters in it, Warlock magic being utterly incompatible with every other type of spellcasting in the game. Exhaustion being far too punishing. WotC put out a bunch of UAs that said, "we hear you" and then said "nevermind, we're keeping them as is, with MAYBE a few bits of errata". Even things that didn't score badly got tossed to the dumpster: unified subclass progression, prof bonus/day instead of SR or ability mod/day., epic boons at 20th level. The only major changes we're getting that literally weren't telegraphed in 2022 are weapon mastery and unified spell lists. Everything else is language clarification and adding/replacing class features.

WotC walked into the living room, decided that ugly half-wall between it and the kitchen needed to go, took all the furniture out of the room, and then, they just decided to paint the wall and put everything back. If they hadn't made a show about removing the half-wall in the first place, most people wouldn't have thought it was an option. Now I'm not overly mad: I like the changes they are making. But the fact they are backpedaling on so many design ideas at this point in design doesn't tell me this was based on player feedback as much as a desire to make sure this new PHB doesn't split the fanbase.

Anyway: this should be the death knell that this is anything resembling 5.5 or 6e: This is Tasha's 2.0.

That's a good metaphor

 

[TerraDave]

They dropped class groups? Ranger and Paladin cantrips? LOL, so many memos that I missed.

Oh and flex vancian casting—-echoes of mentzer basic there, except the flex part.