D&D (2024) 1st level monk. Why?

[Stalker0]

Deflect missile is an always-on defensive option. People ignore it or see it as not very relevant since they think that nobody will bother shooting the monk, but that makes it even more powerful than it already is.

I agree it is important to keep this in mind. Often when you consider class balance, its important to keep in mind the "DM hooks", the ways that Dms can set an encounter to make a class shine.

A heavy ranged attack is a common encounter in the DMs playbook, and its a chance to let the monk strut a bit, as they do have by far the best defensive ability against ranged attacks.

 

[mellored]

Except, as a monk, you would feel like you wasted your time with the class if you never used a single monk ability. Which all want you to be in melee range.

Only flurry of blows needs melee.

You can take a bonus attack* and stun with a "simple weapons". And everything else is movement or defense. (*Though not a light crossbow, since that has loading)

Nope, I miss read that.

Elemental monks in particular get reach, 120' AoE, and flight.

I guess destructive stride is melee. But you're moving 120' without provoking, so effectively a ranged attack.

Anyways. This is about level 1. So just attack twice with the short bow.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Only in PvP, which is pretty atypical play.

I’m pretty sure DMs are picking up on the ideas these UA are putting down.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Monks can flurry of blows twice as often at level 11 than level 5.

It's not a big jump like the other classes, but a steady increase.

If they use their resources.

Fighter's get three attacks, every turn. Paladins get +1d8 to all attacks, every turn.

Getting more ki to spend on more abilities doesn't increase the damage you can do, especially when you were required to flurry to keep up anyways.

 

[Chaosmancer]

But you are only playing one character at once.

This completely misses the point. If I just looked at making a character, and one character was the exact same but better, wouldn't that be a problem? It doesn't matter if I can only play one of them, because there is no reason to play the one that doesn't give me any reason to play it.

So?

So, I picked the weapon that most people are going to pick. Because it does the most damage. Because that's what people who like simple options do, they pick the biggest number.

Not true. When a monk hits with their sap weapon on their first attack they switch to unarmed strikes.

And the fighter can switch to their longsword with flex. Same difference.

Which is why you only give up the damage on the one attack. Out of three or four. Rather than two out of two.

Which is the exact same thing a fighter will be doing by switching weapons. So no difference between them.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Well, that's why I advocate for monks getting something defensive that isn't just an HP boost.

Though, let's be fair, a monk and rogue will have pretty similar defenses at level 1.

When things ween off at around level 3, the rogues and monk both have free defensive options, but with different conditions.

Deflect missile is an always-on defensive option. People ignore it or see it as not very relevant since they think that nobody will bother shooting the monk, but that makes it even more powerful than it already is.

You are forgetting a LOT of factors here.

Rogues at level 2 can disengage as a bonus action. For free. Monks do it with ki and a bonus action.

If a rogue is using a ranged weapon, they can hide as a bonus action (taking no damage) and they can generally pull off 1d8+2d6+4 dmg we'll say. That is 15.5 damage. If they don't use a ranged weapon, they can still deal 15.5 with a rapier, and then disengage and move for free.

If the Monk goes in and just uses unarmed strikes (or some other combo) then they are going to be dealing 2d6+8 which is about the same damage... but now they have a problem. They can't disengage, because they used their bonus action to attack. And they can't use patient defense and dodge because they used their bonus action to attack.

So unlike the Rogue, who can hide, disengage, and eventually gets to cut incoming damage in half if they are even targeted, the monk is going to be in melee with no defensive options FAR more often. This is why mobile is practically a required feat for monks, because they need a way to deliver their damage and match the baseline while still being able to retreat and hope the enemy doesn't chase them.

Deflect missiles doesn't often come up, because the monk is often mired in melee.

 

[mellored]

If they use their resources.

Not sure what else you expected...

 

[Chaosmancer]

Also, since we are discussing Sap and 5th level fighters, I figured I'd do some quick math here.

5th level fighter, no subclass, +4 mod, dueling style and shield gives us an AC of 18 at least, maybe as high as 20

They have access to better weapons, so let's go flail and longsword. 1d8+6 (sap) followed by 1d10+6 (flex) is going to be 22 damage

Monk at this level has 17 AC, and fewer hp. Uses a mace for first attack.

1d6+4 (sap) followed by 1d8+4 and 1d8+4. That is 24.5.

It is 2.5 points higher, on three attacks, which the monk can only do better by spending their resources. They still have lower AC (could be as much as 3 pts lower) and few hp.

What if I went dual-wielder? Well, I think this works, since the feat allows you to treat a one-handed non-light weapon as light as long as you have a light weapon in the other hand

Flail: 1d8+4 then longsword 1d10+4 then Shortsword for 1d6+4 ends up with a total of 25.5 and deals sap and vex for advantage at some point. And the fighter will likely STILL have better AC than the monk.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Not sure what else you expected...

Non-resource using improvements. Like Extra Attack (2) and Improved Divine Smite. The two abilities I keep listing and referencing. That is what else I expected.

 

[mellored]

Non-resource using improvements. Like Extra Attack (2) and Improved Divine Smite. The two abilities I keep listing and referencing. That is what else I expected.

It's like your complaining about wizards not getting enough cantrips...

Their primary feature is a resource that can be expended on a large variety of effects.

If you want a resources-less monk. Ask your DM to a long sword into a punch and be a fighter.

Just to be clear. I agree that low level monks, especially level 1, could use a buff. But go ahead and pit a high level fighter and a high level monk against eachother and see who wins