D&D (2024) GenCon 2023 - D&D Rules Revision panel

[Aldarc]

They'll follow up with an actual book for DMs, though, right? Right?

/shrug. I feel like people who consider themselves as "actual DMs" imagine that they are either too good for DMGs or will just do their own thing anyway.

 

[mamba]

Because it needs an overhaul afte 10 years?
Do you use the same mobile phone after ten years, the same laptop?

I upgraded my last laptop after nearly 10 years.

I see more difference between my phones / laptops and the 2024 revision

 

[Mistwell]

Negativity is warranted when something genuinely isn't good. Ive said before Im not the only one who thinks this way about how WOTC has proceeded.

But you appear to be arguing you've struck on a one true measure of "not genuinely good" as if it's an objective measure. It's not objective but is subjective, and fans of the game by the thousands and thousands are responding to surveys and finding somethings you think are good - and some things I think are good as well - are not good from their perspectives.

This seems to be an ongoing theme with your posts - that you cannot imagine that your tastes are not universal or an overwhelming majority, and if you can find some others in your life or online that agree with your perspective that must mean your friends or those people you find online are representative of some vast army of like-minded peoples as opposed to possibly being a minority view.

Man, sometimes things we like are not liked by a lot of other players, and that should be top of the mind with playtesting and acceptable to people. It's everyones game.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think we should make too much of what "approval ratings" certain elements get. Or, rather, i don't think WotC should. What percentage of what part of the customer base engages with the surveys? And of them, how many actually PLAYtested the material? They probably have MUCH better data from AL and BNDB as far as what classes people play and like.

But that's the point.

The Champion fighter is the most popular subclass on DNDB but has a 54% satisfactory?
How is something so popular but disliked by so many who play it?

Because there weren't other options. Those were cut in playtest. By people who don't play 5e. WOTC put too much stock in the threshold they didn't analyze the data hard enough and ended up wasting time.

 

[Emberashh]

I edited my previous post with my sight of the things...

4e was a success for its time. Its reputation is a lot of hindsight that gets conflated with the fact that it spawned Pathfinder and arguably OSR too.

And 4e, meanwhile, actually just proves the point. Ive maintained for a while that 5e is just basically a lobotomized 4e, and that is why people keep reinventing 4e when they try to fix 5es problems.

If they iterated on it, both it and what could have been 5e would be in a better state than either one is as what are basically giant one offs fully reflective of how they design.

I liked templates too. Shocker, the majority of the audience did not. It's OK to like something a lot of people didn't like. There is nothing objective here - what you and I liked about templates is not objectively better game design, it is just a tastes thing. That's it. It should be acceptable that people just prefer the actual beast stats rather than templates. They didn't perfect some objectively great design with the templates, it was just one of many subjectively workable solutions which didn't work for too many people's tastes.

I don't actually like templates. But I do recognize that if you're going to go that route in a d20 system like 5e, what they did with it during Next Packet 6 is the best example of it they've been able to put out.

(And this should illustrate to others that Im not just picking fights over my darlings. I can and do recognize good design even if I fully disagree with it. Thats why I can say Pathfinder is good game even though I fully detest it)

Maybe, but you dig pretty deep. You're so far down that someone like me probably looks super-positive to you, when what I am is neutral.

If you're seeing yourself that far away from me, you're probably not on all that solid of a footing yourself.

 

[bedir than]

The Champion fighter is the most popular subclass on DNDB but has a 54% satisfactory?

There's no source for this number.
It just keeps getting repeated as a truism without evidence

 

[Minigiant]

There's no source for this number.
It just keeps getting repeated as a truism without evidence

 

[bedir than]

Thank you!

I'm surprised that the post-Tasha's versions of those specific classes and subclasses were so low.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

If you're seeing yourself that far away from me, you're probably not on all that solid of a footing yourself.

Nah. I was just speculating that you might think that we're further apart than we are. If I'm wrong, that's cool.

Ooh. Now THAT'S an interesting slide! It will be interesting to see if whatever they wind up printing scores these numbers, down the road after they print them.

 

[Charlaquin]

The criticism is not on 5e's success.

It's how the 21% Ranger, 29% Berserker, 54% Champion and DMG got printed.

and why we now need 70% approval to change something that did not even get half that

Do y’all know something the rest of us don’t? Where are you getting these numbers from?