D&D (2024) Is Counterspell less frustrating now?

[Vaalingrade]

Again, that isn’t even the case. LR is not there to make certain spells work.

It's there to make it so the spell doesn't hose the encounter. Because the spell can hose the encounter. Because it's a badly design spell coasting on nostalgia and tradition.

None of those prevent story based encounters, and 8 encounter days aren’t even a thing,

They screw with the story and the 8 encounter day is what they balanced the game around, so how is that not a thing?

Having DMd 5e regularly for nearly 10 years now, this is false. Solos work.

Anecdote is not the singular of data.

Falling back on weak sauce personal insults toward the designers because they made the game in a way you don’t prefer just makes you look bad, not them or the game.

The fact that a solo can be wolfpacked is not a personal insult toward the designers.

Nor either is describing the tools they use.

This sentence makes no sense, getting LRd absolutely objectively is just not getting a success on your turn, and the feature isn’t a “cheat”. Calling it that is just…weird.

Rolling a miss or having the target making a save means you had a chance to succeed. The cheating comes from the fact that there is never a chance of success.

We all know that there are more save effects the solo monster isn’t going to want used on them than that.

And they're mostly spells. Because no one's willing to take spells back to formula to where a single failed save just eliminates a monster. You don't see fighters punching liches into orbit.

 

[mellored]

And it shouldn't, is my point. Just no-selling three things for no reason other than the designers don't want to design a boss monster.

Every other spell or ability can be blocked by legendary resistance.

Why should counterspell be special?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Every other spell or ability can be blocked by legendary resistance.

Why should counterspell be special?

I'm pretty much against Legendary Resistance in general, but for counterspell, it compounds because you have the counterspell to block the opening salvo, usually the boss's biggest spell, but the counterspell will never succeed thanks to LR.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's there to make it so the spell doesn't hose the encounter. Because the spell can hose the encounter. Because it's a badly design spell coasting on nostalgia and tradition.

Legendary Saves were implemented when Counterspell had never even been tested as having a saving throw! What you are saying is literally nonsense! Objectively!

They screw with the story and the 8 encounter day is what they balanced the game around, so how is that not a thing?

It isn’t. It is a number of easy encounters that will challenge a party, hypothetically, used as a math model to base other adventuring days from.

How do they screw with the story?

Anecdote is not the singular of data.

I have exactly as much data as you, at the very least.

The fact that a solo can be wolfpacked is not a personal insult toward the designers.

Nor either is describing the tools they use.

These are lame excuses. Accusing them of lazy design, of not wanting to “actually design” things, etc, are insults.

Rolling a miss or having the target making a save means you had a chance to succeed. The cheating comes from the fact that there is never a chance of success.

Yes, there was. Just like an attack that the enemy uses Shield to negate.

And they're mostly spells. Because no one's willing to take spells back to formula to where a single failed save just eliminates a monster. You don't see fighters punching liches into orbit.

Fighters doing looney toons nonsense is a wholly different discussion.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Legendary Saves were implemented when Counterspell had never even been tested as having a saving throw! What you are saying is literally nonsense! Objectively!

Hold on.

Do you think I'm saying Counterspell is the only spell this is a stopgap for and not just a whole big slate of spells?

It isn’t. It is a number of easy encounters that will challenge a party, hypothetically, used as a math model to base other adventuring days from.

I was just on a thread where someone objected to me saying no one does 8 per day. Made a sweet mythology joke about their reply and everything.

How do they screw with the story?

By absolutely annihilating the pacing.

These are lame excuses. Accusing them of lazy design, of not wanting to “actually design” things, etc, are insults.

You are still ignoring the core of my point about woflpacking by attacking my verbiage and appealing to emotion.

Yes, there was. Just like an attack that the enemy uses Shield to negate.

There's not.

And Shield gives a bonus, it doesn't immediately negate.

Fighters doing looney toons nonsense is a wholly different discussion.

Not the point. Spells are the problem. Spells are the ones that can instantly negate a monster in such as way that they needed a way to just say 'no' to them instead of fix them and fix boss monsters (and admit that one monster with one turn a round is not a match for 4-5 PCs with 4-5 turns a round).

 

[Mistwell]

I'm pretty much against Legendary Resistance in general, but for counterspell, it compounds because you have the counterspell to block the opening salvo, usually the boss's biggest spell, but the counterspell will never succeed thanks to LR.

Good. Great result. You wasted one of their three precious resistances with a 3rd level spell, and you did it with just a reaction rather than your action too! Awesome result for the spellcaster.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And all it cost you was a boat load of party HP, maybe some of their actions, the battlefield being altered in a huge way, the fighter being a sheep now... the possibilities are endless -- like a spellcaster's spell selection endless.

 

[mellored]

I'm pretty much against Legendary Resistance in general, but for counterspell, it compounds because you have the counterspell to block the opening salvo, usually the boss's biggest spell, but the counterspell will never succeed thanks to LR.

Doesn't really answer my question.

Why does counterspell get to be special about legendary resistance?

You can't use Improved Initiative + Tasha's Hideous Laughter for instance.


Also curious how you feel about fighters indomitable. Which is effectively legendary resistance at higher levels.

 

[Asisreo]

I think it's a rulings thing. Counterspell interrupts a creature, but it doesn't target the creature. Nor does it say it targets the spell. That means it's up to the DM to make a ruling on whether the Globe of Invulnerability will work or not. If the DM rules you are targeting the creature, the globe works. If the DM rules you are targeting the spell, then it doesn't work.

I think its fairly clear you target the creature and affecting the creature when counterspelling. There isn't an effect to target while the target is casting the spell.

 

[Asisreo]

And all it cost you was a boat load of party HP, maybe some of their actions, the battlefield being altered in a huge way, the fighter being a sheep now... the possibilities are endless -- like a spellcaster's spell selection endless.

Sounds interactive, tense, and fun. A lot better than "Enemy did nothing for third turn in a row."