D&D (2024) Playtest 7 survey is now live.

[Stalker0]

I really tried my hand at putting something like that together. It's still 8 subclasses worth of page space if the abilities are supposed to be anything other than spells/minor buffs that attempt to reinforce those themes. Each school would need to be at least 3 abilities to capture its essence.

If those abilities were condensed into concepts that could fit into micro paragraphs (like Wild Heart Barbarian does), would they be able to capture the essence of a Necromancer or Conjurer (who many would want to be pet classes)? Abjurer and Diviner also have interesting abilities that need decent wordcount to capture.

It would be more generic, but you can do it with abilities like this:

• School Specialization: Choose 1 school of magic (div, trans, etc etc). When you acquire new spells as wizard, you gain 1 additional spell of this school.
• School Enhancement: When you cast spells from your specialized school, gain +1 DC.
• etc

It would be too hard to generate the distinctive abilities you get right now (diviner vs abjurer feels quite different), but if you really want to boil down the 8 school specializations into 1 subclass you could do it, but it wouldn't be nearly as "cool" for some people as what we have in 2014.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

It would be more generic, but you can do it with abilities like this:

• School Specialization: Choose 1 school of magic (div, trans, etc etc). When you acquire new spells as wizard, you gain 1 additional spell of this school.
• School Enhancement: When you cast spells from your specialized school, gain +1 DC.
• etc

It would be too hard to generate the distinctive abilities you get right now (diviner vs abjurer feels quite different), but if you really want to boil down the 8 school specializations into 1 subclass you could do it, but it wouldn't be nearly as "cool" for some people as what we have in 2014.

Also a subclass is more than mechanics. It is a theme, a story, often a role. Each subclass is supposed to be supported by a thematic description that inspires the player to give it a shot. A generic "Specialist Scholar" would have a verry generic theme and would not do justice to each of the schools, because many of them are very different. An Evoker's abilities suggest a different role than that of a Necromancer. Heck, the Berserker's theme is "go berserk" and it would have more flavor than a Necromancer within a universal Scholar subclass design.

I believe that spell schools deserve individual subclass writeups and it's fine that they don't include them all in the 2024 printing of the PH. I believe it is a foregone conclusion that they are going this way. I suppose I'm providing my insight into why they might have made this choice, and why I agree that it is the right choice.

 

[Gorck]

I really tried my hand at putting something like that together. It's still 8 subclasses worth of page space if the abilities are supposed to be anything other than spells/minor buffs that attempt to reinforce those themes. Each school would need to be at least 3 abilities to capture its essence.

If those abilities were condensed into concepts that could fit into micro paragraphs (like Wild Heart Barbarian does), would they be able to capture the essence of a Necromancer or Conjurer (who many would want to be pet classes)? Abjurer and Diviner also have interesting abilities that need decent wordcount to capture.

I took my own little stab at something like this, except I consolidated the 8 schools down into 4 subclasses. I wound up with:

War Mage (Abjuration & Evocation) - Evocation for offensive magic and Abjuration for defensive magic.

Dark Summoner (Conjuration & Necromancy) - Necromancy to summon undead beings and Conjuration to summon living beings as well as inanimate objects.

Reality Bender (Divination & Illusion) - Divination to help yourself see the past/future and Illusion to make others see what’s not there.

Alteration Specialist (Enchantment & Transmutation) - Transmutation to alter objects and Enchantment to alter creatures.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I took my own little stab at something like this, except I consolidated the 8 schools down into 4 subclasses. I wound up with:

War Mage (Abjuration & Evocation) - Evocation for offensive magic and Abjuration for defensive magic.

Dark Summoner (Conjuration & Necromancy) - Necromancy to summon undead beings and Conjuration to summon living beings as well as inanimate objects.

Reality Bender (Divination & Illusion) - Divination to help yourself see the past/future and Illusion to make others see what’s not there.

Alteration Specialist (Enchantment & Transmutation) - Transmutation to alter objects and Enchantment to alter creatures.

This is exactly what we needed, specialist by a them not just a school. I mentioned this in my feedback that an over all war wizard would have been much better than a separate abjurationist and evocationist.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

Alteration Specialist (Enchantment & Transmutation) - Transmutation to alter objects and Enchantment to alter creatures.

I think it makes more sense to say that Transmutation alters physical matter while Enchantment alters the state of the mind.

Edit: Otherwise I could see this working as a viable alternative to having a subclass for all 8 schools, though that would be preferred to me personally.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I took my own little stab at something like this, except I consolidated the 8 schools down into 4 subclasses. I wound up with:

War Mage (Abjuration & Evocation) - Evocation for offensive magic and Abjuration for defensive magic.

Dark Summoner (Conjuration & Necromancy) - Necromancy to summon undead beings and Conjuration to summon living beings as well as inanimate objects.

Reality Bender (Divination & Illusion) - Divination to help yourself see the past/future and Illusion to make others see what’s not there.

Alteration Specialist (Enchantment & Transmutation) - Transmutation to alter objects and Enchantment to alter creatures.

Trust me, I played around with pairing off schools as well. But after all is said and done, it's a Thesaurus search trying to find words that can be twisted to mean the combining of two things. That's a fun project, but they aren't strong themes with evocative identities that actually match the breadth of spells within the schools. Also, Wizards don't get a lot of subclass abilities. How are 3 class abilities supposed to capture 2 schools?

• War Mage is probably the best thematic grouping of the 4, but it already means something else. Also, Abjurers aren't necessarily about "war" as they could be protectors on a much smaller scale.
• Dark Summoner doesn't capture Necromancy at all. "Dark" is just a descriptor, "Summon" is the active word. Most necromancy isn't about summoning.
• Reality Bender suggests an action to shape reality, and Transmuter sounds more appropriate to shaping reality.
• Alteration Specialist? Just words without identity. We're scraping the Thesaurus on this one. I've been there buddy.

In the past we've played with repurposing older-edition class names for these gestalt themes, like "Beguiler" for an Enchanter/Illusionist, or "War Mage" for the Evoker/Abjurer, like you did. At that point we're left trying to figure out which of the remaining 4 can be best distilled into 2 themes. Conjuration, Divination, Necromancy, and Transmutation.

We'd be watering down 8 full themes for a goal to "fit 8 schools into 4 subclasses for a book". I don't think that is the right goal. I think the better goal is "make each school specialist feel like they embody the journey to master of that school of magic."

I think we're stuck with the 8 schools. People know what they mean (in general) despite the slight shifting they do from edition to edition (I'm looking at you healing, light/positive energy, dark/negative energy, and elemental energy spells).

 

[Gorck]

@Mirrorrorrim , for the record, I originally just had Alterationist. But the other three schools were all 2 words long, so I felt the need to make it the same. I know Necromancy spells are about more than just summoning, but that's how the 2014 PHB subclass was designed, so I paired it up with Conjuration.

Here's the rest of my lackluster notes.:

Spoiler: War Mage

WAR MAGE (Abjuration/Evocation) – Evocation for offensive magic and Abjuration for defensive magic

3 War Savant: Chooses two Abjuration and/or Evocation spells from the Wizard spell list [. . .] In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Abjuration and/or Evocation from the Wizard spell list [ . . .]


3 Potent Cantrip (Evoker): UA 7


6 Sculpt Spells (Evoker): UA 7


10 Spell Breaker (Abjurer): UA 7


14 Spell Resistance (Abjurer): UA7

Spoiler: Dark Summoner

DARK SUMMONER (Conjuration/Necromancy) – Necromancy to summon undead beings and Conjuration to summon living beings as well as inanimate objects

3 Summoner Savant: Chooses two Conjuration and/or Necromancy spells from the Wizard spell list [. . .] In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Conjuration and/or Necromancy from the Wizard spell list [ . . .]


3 Grim Harvest (Necromancer): 2014 PHB


6 Master Summoner (Necromancer) NEW: learn Summon Undead (if you already know this spell, learn Summon Beast, Summon Fey, or Summon Shadowspawn instead). Your summoned creatures add your PB to damage rolls and they last for 24 hours.


10 Focused Conjuration (Conjurer): 2014 PHB


14 Durable Summons (Conjurer): 2014 PHB

Spoiler: Reality Bender

REALITY BENDER (Divination/Illusion) – Divination to help yourself see the past/future and Illusion to make others see what’s not there

3 Reality Savant: Chooses two Divination and/or Illusion spells from the Wizard spell list [. . .] In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Divination and/or Illusion from the Wizard spell list [ . . .]


3 Portent (Diviner): UA 7


6 Malleable Illusions (Illusionist): UA 7


10 Illusory Self (Illusionist): UA 7


14 Greater Portent (Diviner): UA7

Spoiler: Alteration Specialist

ALTERATION SPECIALIST (Enchantment/Transmutation) – Transmutation to alter objects and Enchantment to alter creatures

3 Alteration Savant: Chooses two Enchantment and/or Transmutation spells from the Wizard spell list [. . .] In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Enchantment and/or Transmutation from the Wizard spell list [ . . .]


3 Hypnotic Gaze (Enchanter): 2014 PHB


6 Instinctive Charm (Enchanter): 2014 PHB


10 Shapechanger (Transmuter): 2014 PHB


14 Transmuter’s Stone (Transmuter) NEW: Combine 2014 PHB Transmuter’s Stone with Master Transmuter

 

[Mistwell]

Spells need help.

The slot levels are a vital aspect of the game engine balance, especially for high tiers. The spells need to match their slot location accurately.

Spells that are subpar compared to other spells in the same slot, need a demotion to a lower slot or a rewrite.

Generally, the spells in slots 6 thru 8 seem meh and disappointing.

A few spells are concerning, such as Force Cage.

It will take more than one iteration to get spells accurately worthy of their slot.

I do not think they will be dropping spells, or making spells a different level, for backwards compatibility reasons. The easiest thing to do is nerf some overpowered spells, and then tweak some underpowered ones. More nerfing than tweaking is my guess.

Most force spells have the same issue as Force Cage, and the easy nerf is likely to make them not invulnerable. Give them an AC and hit points, and that will take care of many spells. Tiny Hut, Wall of Force, Force Cage, etc..

Some area of effect control spells will all likely get a unified nerf as well, probably involving saves and also when you make those saves.

The Summon X number of spells will likely all get a unified nerf too, for speed of the game. Fix their initiative, their quantity, when you must choose which creatures you can summon, etc..

Some spells which shape change you into something else or which can summon something that can cast spells or shape change into something else will likely get a unified nerf to close loopholes.

I don't think we get more than one iteration on spells. We will be lucky to get even one.

 

[Yaarel]

I do not think they will be dropping spells, or making spells a different level, for backwards compatibility reasons. The easiest thing to do is nerf some overpowered spells, and then tweak some underpowered ones. More nerfing than tweaking is my guess.

Most force spells have the same issue as Force Cage, and the easy nerf is likely to make them not invulnerable. Give them an AC and hit points, and that will take care of many spells. Tiny Hut, Wall of Force, Force Cage, etc..

Some area of effect control spells will all likely get a unified nerf as well, probably involving saves and also when you make those saves.

The Summon X number of spells will likely all get a unified nerf too, for speed of the game. Fix their initiative, their quantity, when you must choose which creatures you can summon, etc..

Some spells which shape change you into something else or which can summon something that can cast spells or shape change into something else will likely get a unified nerf to close loopholes.

I don't think we get more than one iteration on spells. We will be lucky to get even one.

2014 did a pretty good job at removing overpowered spells. But there are still way too many underpowered spells.

Underpowered spells dont break the game the way that overpowered spells do. But when there are too many underpowered spells compared to the other spells in the same slot, it increases the need for system mastery to avoid them. Also, the underpowered spells see less use. Because being a poor choice they arent really a choice, thus both waste space and diminish real choice. The underpowered spells also create confusion for the DM when the DM needs to adjudicate a feature based on how powerful it is while using the spell slots as a gauge.

It is the underpowered spells that need attention. I hope to see the playtest attend them.

I agree the 2024 wont remove any spells, but it can improve spell descriptions. The Jump spell is an example of a boost (rather than a nerf), turning a near-worthless spell into a fun spell, thus increasing choices among other good spells. I see no problem with changing the slot level of a spell − if that seems the best solution for a particular spell, it is also the simplest solution.

 

[Yaarel]

Many spells that are poor spells, can be interesting rituals.

It is worthwhile to make rituals a separate design space.

It is even more interesting for a ritual to use the ability (skill) check mechanics. To "fumble" a ritual might create a negative effect, representing the trope of a spell gone awry.

Meanwhile, a caster can spend a slot on a ritual to guarantee success (but not a crit). Yet most players would want to save their slots for combat, and risk performing a ritual via an ability (skill) check.