D&D General Nolzur creates inclusive miniatures, people can't handle it.

[Vaalingrade]

I'm not a coffee drinker. I am not going to bother forming an opinion on the latest trends coming out of coffeeshops. There was this thing with olive oil in coffee, that apparently switched to butter? Do I care? No.

If you use public toilets ever, you have a dog in this particular race.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Okay, but I just said that the low str/con PC will also have a lot of trouble with the mud, though significantly less than trying to push a wheelchair through 2 feet of mud(not really possible).

It's not possible for a lot of people either, but you're just making one check to cover a long period of time (do you make checks every 50 feet?) for one, while completely disallowing the other. Both are impossible.

I've walked through that much mud. Muck really, but it was two feet worth. And I did it as a 10 year old, so not strong. Was it difficult? Yes. Did I struggle? Yes. Did I make it through on my own? Also yes. Did I step on something sharp and cut my foot open while I was barefoot? Another yes! I'm speaking from experience here. It wasn't fun, but I made it.

I don't think you're realizing what 2 feet actually is. You're telling me that as a 10 year old, you walked through mud that came up to your waist? Not buying it. As someone who grew up on a farm myself, and seeing countless times how 1 foot of mud stops grown adults in their tracks. And as someone who in my young adult life did land nav courses that are very similar to what PCs would do just going from one point to another on a map, there is 0% chance most adults could do most of those tasks (climbing, hiking in swamps or through thick forest or up steep hills, rope use, etc.)

The point is, 99% of the time in the game, we either just enforce a passable check for PCs that have zero chance if we were to apply any sort of realism to the scenario*. But suddenly when it comes down to something like this, then it's automatically "no way! Not possible! Not realistic!"

*And that check covers a long time instead of being repeated as often as it "should" because it's not fun in the game to just sit there and keep making dozens of die rolls over and over. I.e., we like to handwave away realism for the fun of the game, but then want to enforce it arbitrarily other times. Why? If it's taking away the fun of someone, why do we handwave it away for the fun of everyone else?

 

[Maxperson]

It's not possible for a lot of people either, but you're just making one check to cover a long period of time (do you make checks every 50 feet?) for one, while completely disallowing the other. Both are impossible.

I don't think you're realizing what 2 feet actually is. You're telling me that as a 10 year old, you walked through mud that came up to your waist? Not buying it. As someone who grew up on a farm myself, and seeing countless times how 1 foot of mud stops grown adults in their tracks. And as someone who in my young adult life did land nav courses that are very similar to what PCs would do just going from one point to another on a map, there is 0% chance most adults could do most of those tasks (climbing, hiking in swamps or through thick forest or up steep hills, rope use, etc.)

The point is, 99% of the time in the game, we either just enforce a passable check for PCs that have zero chance if we were to apply any sort of realism to the scenario*. But suddenly when it comes down to something like this, then it's automatically "no way! Not possible! Not realistic!"

*And that check covers a long time instead of being repeated as often as it "should" because it's not fun in the game to just sit there and keep making dozens of die rolls over and over. I.e., we like to handwave away realism for the fun of the game, but then want to enforce it arbitrarily other times. Why? If it's taking away the fun of someone, why do we handwave it away for the fun of everyone else?

It really doesn't matter to me if you buy it or not. I know what I did. It went up to just under my crotch and I was about 4 and and a half feet tall. was it exactly 2 feet? No idea. It was well over 1 foot, though and if not 2 feet, almost 2 feet.

 

[Vaalingrade]

We're talking about the game where difficult terrain just makes you count the square you move through twice, right? Regardless of if the person moving through it is a 8 foot ogre or a six inch pixie? But it's a whole new ballgame if someone in a wheelchair goes through it?

It's at that point where we have to stop and ask ourselves why we're drawing the line where we're drawing it and whether it has something to do with our preconceptions and misconceptions.

 

[Umbran]

If you use public toilets ever, you have a dog in this particular race.

You: "IS it really so terrible to let other people having their fantasy?"

Public toilets are a dark reality, not a fantasy.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You: "IS it really so terrible to let other people having their fantasy?"

Public toilets are a dark reality, not a fantasy.

I have a joke for this.

I don't want to make it.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Honestly I'm finding the bastion system less realistic than adventurers in wheelchairs.

Owning a home is truly an immersion breaking fantasy element.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Honestly I'm finding the bastion system less realistic than adventurers in wheelchairs.

Owning a home is truly an immersion breaking fantasy element.

For real. At least in coastal states. A few days ago I posted this comparison, and why I need to move to the midwest lol. Twice the house for half the cost.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Honestly I'm finding the bastion system less realistic than adventurers in wheelchairs.

Owning a home is truly an immersion breaking fantasy element.

At first, I thought the Bastion system was completely unrealistic because no amount of gold can buy a Bastion.

But your observation made me realize the Bastion system is just modeling the U.S. housing market.

 

[Oofta]

When you live with a disability, you get creative. You learn to problem-solve. The issue might be that only a disabled player would be used to that level of constant problem-solving. That said, I suggest that, if we all spend a little more time thinking about cultural accessibility and awareness in our games, it could have significant repercussions on the accessibility of the real world.

Obviously every group should decide how they want to handle it, I'm just explaining my perspective on this.

The video shows going down a short flight of stairs and up a few fairly deep steps with the help of a railing. Which is, admittedly, pretty cool. There are still going to be many situations where it's just not possible.

I'm more than willing to work with a player if this ever comes up in my game . But in my game? It's going to be a slightly magical wheelchair or the player is going to have to work with me on what's possible. Climbing a ladder? Steep steps like you hit in a real world castle? Climbing over rubble? Jumping even small gaps? How that is going to be handled is something we'd discuss.

Just hand-waving it and pretending it is not a disability would not work for me if I'm DMing. My father didn't have a right hand below his elbow. He was awesome but he still had limitations. Just like my dad was not less of a person because he physically (as a minor example) tie shoes, a person in a wheel chair is not less of a person but they simply are not as physically capable without technological or supernatural aids.