WotC New D&D survey from WotC as part of the 50th anniversary year.

[Mistwell]

Here you go. However deleting something doesn’t make the quote untrue or rumor.

OK, so some interesting things in that video.

First, he does say specifically WOTC was very nice and did apologize. In fact he said that twice they apologized, that they were being very nice, that they were not rude about it or anything, wanted to know what kinds of stuff he liked so they could send it to him for free, and they very very cordial.

Second, he calls them "heavy duty lawmen" not thugs or goons or anything like that. And at the beginning of the video he describes what he means by that, that Pinkertons as the largest private security firm in the world are really heavy duty in that field. He doesn't appear to be describing these particular people at his door, he's talking about (at least from what I can tell given the full context) the importance of the security firm itself.

Third, while HE did not steal these products, he says he bought them off a guy he doesn't seem to know very well and who he thinks didn't do anything nefarious as a mostly Pokemon dealer, but he doesn't seem to know the guy much. But he also says WOTC seemed to think maybe that guy stole them, and wanted them back so they could try and track what happened. So while he speculates he thinks they were sent out by accident, that would explain WOTC saying they dispute the story. WOTC may have good reason to think they were stolen, or there is a source within WOTC that is illegally selling them to guys like that other dealer, and given we don't even know who the guy is who is the source of these cards, maybe they are right. Who knows, but it would explain why they took the matter so seriously as to hire a private investigation firm and track these things across the country following a path that appears to lead through multiple people. The guy admits the 4 minute mark it is possible someone stole the boxes though he still doesn't think that's what happened. I happen to think his logic is flawed, since he seems convinced WOTC warehouse guys distribute based on the names of things, and I am pretty sure based on what I know that they distribute based on bar coding and everything gets scanned before it is shipped so that it would be very difficult to make an error based on a name on a box. I seem to recall someone mentioning they even use RFID for a portion of that distribution (maybe it's on the crate).

So, nothing about goons. No description matching that goons description you made. No guns mentioned or implied. You said to me "This kind of rewriting of what is actually documented isn’t great," but the thing you presented as documenting it...isn't great and doesn't support your allegation. So, while I don't need an apology, can you at least meet me half way here and agree it's not as cut and dried as to be saying I am rewriting what is documented?

 

[Mistwell]

It's not just one incident though. Throw in OGL, sub par products, layoffs etc.

Corporations gonna Corporation they deserve it. Pump share price lay off staff screw them.

The OGL is truly the only one that bothers me, and I feel like WOTC went overboard to correct that bad decision and it reflects an internal fight that ultimately the good guys inside WOTC won (because the good guys outside WOTC put pressure on the bad guys inside WOTC to see they had lost).

The rest of it doesn't bother me. I mean I don't like layoffs but I also don't think WOTC had anything to do with that, and I can't think of a larger company I use that hasn't had layoffs. When I look around my desk right now I see product names like Dell, LG, Cisco, I don't think I see a single larger company which hasn't had multiple layoffs and here I am still using their products and not considering ending my business relationships with those companies. I've also been laid off from a major company, and while I was surely unhappy about it I understand why they were doing layoffs then too. Most of my friends have also experienced layoffs from Disney, Warner Brothers, Lucasfilm, WB/Discovery, Cartoon Network, so many more. Layoffs suck, but it's just part of larger companies. Even medium sized companies do them sometimes, like with Paizo laid off most of it's video game portion of the company.

And I've said more than enough about my opinions on the Pinkertons issue. And then all the political/culture changes have not bothered me.

I will add one more though: that Spelljammer boxed set. That was a bad decision that bothered me, though it's relatively minor.

So for me, the one major thing that bothered me I felt WOTC resolved to my satisfaction (the OGL thing). I get why others feel differently. I hope they get why not everyone agrees.

 

[Zardnaar]

The OGL is truly the only one that bothers me, and I feel like WOTC went overboard to correct that bad decision and it reflects an internal fight that ultimately the good guys inside WOTC won (because the good guys outside WOTC put pressure on the bad guys inside WOTC to see they had lost).

The rest of it doesn't bother me. I mean I don't like layoffs but I also don't think WOTC had anything to do with that, and I can't think of a larger company I use that hasn't had layoffs. When I look around my desk right now I see product names like Dell, LG, Cisco, I don't think I see a single larger company which hasn't had multiple layoffs and here I am still using their products and not considering ending my business relationships with those companies. I've also been laid off from a major company, and while I was surely unhappy about it I understand why they were doing layoffs then too. Most of my friends have also experienced layoffs from Disney, Warner Brothers, Lucasfilm, WB/Discovery, Cartoon Network, so many more. Layoffs suck, but it's just part of larger companies. Even medium sized companies do them sometimes, like with Paizo laid off most of it's video game portion of the company.

And I've said more than enough about my opinions on the Pinkertons issue. And then all the political/culture changes have not bothered me.

I will add one more though: that Spelljammer boxed set. That was a bad decision that bothered me, though it's relatively minor.

So for me, the one major thing that bothered me I felt WOTC resolved to my satisfaction (the OGL thing). I get why others feel differently. I hope they get why not everyone agrees.

I dint really care if people agree with me I'm not a fan of corporations in general, American ones in particular.

So appeals to "business as usual" don't work with me when "business as usual" is the problem.

 

[Yaarel]

WOTC saying they dispute pretty much every word of it but settled it nonetheless to put an end to it.

WotC never settled anything.

I only recently became aware of the incident, which happened about a year ago.

From all accounts, WotC settled nothing.


The Cannon family was right to be outraged by what the WotC executive did. The entire Magic The Gathering communities were right to be outraged by what WotC did.

But the Cannons decided to move past the wrongdoing by WotC. They love the Magic The Gathering game. They continued to do social media videos about upcoming Magic The Gathering.

The only consolation is, after the scandal, WotC is unlikely to send Pinkerton after innocent fans in the future.

The contempt and lack of compassion that certain executives have for the players of WotC products, remains alarming. Not all, but some are problematic.


This is a humorous D&D tradition. We can count on the custodians of D&D to step on more rakes in the future.

 

[Yaarel]

First, he does say specifically WOTC was very nice and did apologize.

It is wrong to view "WotC" as a single person.

An executive did something horrific.

An employee was appalled by what the executive did, and "apologetic" about it.

Different persons.

 

[Mistwell]

WotC never settled anything.

I only recently became aware of the incident, which happened about a year ago.

From all accounts, WotC settled nothing.

The guy in the video says it's done and he got a bunch of free stuff to compensate him and then deleted the other videos at their request and got an apology.

That looks pretty settled.

The Cannon family was right to be outraged by what the WotC executive did.

He doesn't sound outraged in his video, which was posted above. I reprinted his words. He said WOTC was very nice, respectful, etc..

Stop manufacturing outrage. The actual guy in question doesn't agree with your characterization of the events.

The entire Magic The Gathering communities were right to be outraged by what WotC did.

But the Cannons decided to move past the wrongdoing by WotC. They love the Magic The Gathering game. They continued to do social media videos about upcoming Magic The Gathering.

His own words contradict your take. He REPEATEDLY says WOTC were nice and respectful and kind. Why are you putting words in his mouth about what happened? What on earth is your basis for doing that, because you were upset so you need to make him sound like he was outraged at WOTC?

The only consolation is, after the scandal, WotC is unlikely to send Pinkerton after innocent fans in the future.

The contempt and lack of compassion that certain executives have for the players of WotC products, remains alarming. Not all, but some are problematic.


This is a humorous D&D tradition. We can count on the custodians of D&D to step on more rakes in the future.

Man, you've gone off the rails on this one. I honestly think you need to take a step back, watch the video and take his own word for how he feels WOTC behaved in this.

 

[Mistwell]

It is wrong to view "WotC" as a single person.

Tell that to the guy saying it. That's his words.

An executive did something horrific.

Who?

An employee was appalled by what the executive did, and "apologetic" about it.

No? You're making stuff up now. You have no idea if the guy he talked to was the guy who authorized the investigation from Pinkertons. Indeed, it sounds like it was him as Pinkertons gave him that guys number.

Different persons.

Prove it. Enough of your speculation, prove it. Because it sure looks from my perspective like you're just making details up without any direct knowledge, stating it's true and challenging anyone to doubt your speculation. Well, I am. Support it, or stop spreading unfounded outrage rumors.

 

[Yaarel]

The guy in the video says it's done and he got a bunch of free stuff to compensate him and then deleted the other videos at their request and got an apology.

That looks pretty settled.

The Cannons never got "free stuff".

Rather.

They were sent the "wrong" product. Pinkerton stole this by extortion.

WotC sent him the "correct" product instead.

There was never compensation by WotC to the Cannons for the Pinkerton incident.


The individual at WotC who was horrified by what the WotC executive and Pinkerton did, was "apologetic" about it.

 

[Yaarel]

Who?

You tell me who instructed Pinkerton to go after the fan.

WotC makes a point to shield the bad actors among their executives.

We still dont know the name of the executive who authorized the horrible anti-OGL contract. Tho that obviously comes from the top.

We still dont know the name of the person that wrote those weird letters at DnDBeyond that were trying to push the anti-OGL contract.

There are credible suspicions, who.

Also, obviously the executives themselves know who, and it is evident that different factions among them want different goals.

But the bad actor executives are careful to hide behind their fellows and employees.

 

[Mistwell]

The Cannons never got "free stuff".

No matter how many times you call him a liar, without support for your allegation I am just going to go with the words he uses and not yours.

Rather.

They were sent the "wrong" product. Pinkerton stole this by extortion.

You realize he didn't buy the product from WOTC, right?

I am starting to wonder how much you know about this topic you're so adamant about.

He didn't buy it from WOTC. He is SPECULATING that the actual seller was sent it by accident, but WOTC disputes that and frankly his reason for the speculation doesn't match the reality of most shipping departments which use bar code scanning and not product titles for their shipping. And he admits it is possible it was stolen, he doesn't know, he just suspects it was not.

WotC sent him the "correct" product instead.

He didn't buy it from WOTC and that is not what he says they sent him. He says they asked him what he likes in general and sent him a bunch of stuff.

Again, the more you talk about this, the more it seems you don't know what happened. Which is irritating because you keep speaking about it with an authoritative tone and it makes me question other things you say now that I see you mistake things repeatedly with such assurance.

There was never compensation by WotC to the Cannons for the Pinkerton incident.

They said there was. Are they lying?

The individual at WotC who was horrified by what the WotC executive and Pinkerton did, was "apologetic" about it.

Prove any executive other than the guy they spoke with was involved. I am waiting.