WotC New D&D survey from WotC as part of the 50th anniversary year.

[bedir than]

This happens EVERY TIME a new edition is released

1 - usually they let people go after the development, not during it.
2 - this also doesn't mean it can't upset me
3 - also, they haven't let people go while growing in the past
4 - finally, it's real people in my real city that are unemployed, so yes, it upsets me.

 

[Rystefn]

I know someone who works for the Pinkertons investigation unit. He's a good person, his stories about their investigation department are that they're generally a good group of people, and mostly nerdy. Maybe you should stop attacking them as if they're some 1950s thugs in a movie, since it's obvious your view of them is based on stories rather than direct contact. I think you've managed to dehumanize them a bit in your mind and that's not healthy for views of people you've neve had contact with in your life.

This is the "my uncle is a good cop, though" of answers. Of course his stories are that he's a good person. What a meaningless metric. Well, I'll see your anecdote, and match it with one of mine. There was a guy in my friend group in high school that was a colossal asshat who constantly started fights with people, and constantly dragged other people into it when he did. To be clear, not arguments a disagreements. Real, physical fights. He went on to work for the Pinkertons. He continued starting fights all the time, only now he was getting paid for it. Never got a write up or reprimand of any kind of it. Always looking for an excuse, that guy. That's what they liked about him over there. He bragged about it. Last I heard, he was still bragging about it.

There you go. I have had contact with them. My story is coming from direct contact. The only reason they're not 1950s thugs in a movie is because they're actually 1850s thugs.

 

[Mistwell]

In the post you quoted, the criticism is against WotC, namely a decision by one of the executives there. For context of disregard, I am referring to the unnamed person from WotC, when during the ap-OGL-ypse WotC was strong-arming indy creators to sign that horrible contract.

Right, in response to my talking about the Pinkerton issue, which you had previously commented about and I replied to, remember? Was it just a total non-sequitur?

With regard to Pinkerton, I assume WotC hired Pinkerton to find who the leak was. Hiring Pinkerton is a big deal. Newspapers notice when corporations do it.

The problem is with whoever in WotC decided it was a good idea to go after a fan in such a oversized way.

Was it such an oversized way? There is an assumption there. A large portion of that part of the business is predicated on no early leaks or fraudulent behavior or counterfeits, etc.. We know so little about the details of this other than I think three accounts from the person who had them, which apparently contradicted each other and then were deleted, and WOTC saying they dispute pretty much every word of it but settled it nonetheless to put an end to it. So why are you so confident of what happened when it seems even the guy at the end of this doesn't seem very confident about what happened?

 

[Mistwell]

It’s still in the video.

Anyone who shows up at my door and does this? For a private matter? A private citizen? To my innocent wife? Yea. It’s still up. Not a rumor.

View attachment 351737

Link, because he said he deleted it, with reason, and also changed part of that story (twice it seems). So where did you find that?

 

[Mistwell]

This is the "my uncle is a good cop, though" of answers.

No this is your "I heard a rumor these guys are bad" and you being dismissive of any contrary direct contact, much less an contrary rumor. If you have actual evidence the investigation department does bad things, let's see it because I can find a lot of actual evidence of police being bad. Otherwise that was one disingenuous analogy you presented.

Of course his stories are that he's a good person. What a meaningless metric.

No I didn't say that. I said he is a good person, not that he tells me stories that he is a good person. And since that's the second disingenuous statement you made in two sentences, this conversation looks to be going downhill fast.

Well, I'll see your anecdote, and match it with one of mine. There was a guy in my friend group in high school that was a colossal asshat who constantly started fights with people, and constantly dragged other people into it when he did. To be clear, not arguments a disagreements. Real, physical fights. He went on to work for the Pinkertons.

The INVESTIGATION department? I bet he did not. I think your not-friend went on to work for the security department, right?

He continued starting fights all the time, only now he was getting paid for it.

Well that's definitely not their investigators he'd get fired in a day.

Never got a write up or reprimand of any kind of it. Always looking for an excuse, that guy. That's what they liked about him over there. He bragged about it. Last I heard, he was still bragging about it.

There you go. I have had contact with them. My story is coming from direct contact. The only reason they're not 1950s thugs in a movie is because they're actually 1850s thugs.

No your story is not coming from direct contact with an investigator at Pinkertons. Though I'll grant you that doesn't speak well for the security department there.

 

[darjr]

Link, because he said he deleted it, with reason, and also changed part of that story (twice it seems). So where did you find that?

Here you go. However deleting something doesn’t make the quote untrue or rumor.

 

[Zardnaar]

I know someone who works for the Pinkertons investigation unit. He's a good person, his stories about their investigation department are that they're generally a good group of people, and mostly nerdy. Maybe you should stop attacking them as if they're some 1950s thugs in a movie, since it's obvious your view of them is based on stories rather than direct contact. I think you've managed to dehumanize them a bit in your mind and that's not healthy for views of people you've neve had contact with in your life.

Well they where themselves put to corporations which have the same reputation these days as used care salesmen, politicians, lawyers, fascists and Morris dancers. One could do more ethical business decisions like invest in nuclear power or weapons production.

All WotC has to do is stop shooting themselves in the foot. Their response "hold my beer look at this new machine gun we bought".

 

[Nikosandros]

Nothing the Pinkerton did was illegal, either: WotC is within their rights to pursue their property, and again they decided to trade the guy swag instead of taking him to court.

It was not their property. You keep talking about this like something was stolen.

Back in 2014, Italian WotC distributed the DMG without specifying a street date. I was sold a copy well in advance of the official release date. If WotC had sent someone to "get back" the book from me, I would have had some choice words for them, before calling the police on them.

 

[Mistwell]

Well they where themselves put to corporations which have the same reputation these days as used care salesmen, politicians, lawyers, fascists and Morris dancers. One could do more ethical business decisions like invest in nuclear power or weapons production.

All WotC has to do is stop shooting themselves in the foot. Their response "hold my beer look at this new machine gun we bought".

Well, and now we're back to "There is nothing WOTC can say or do that some won't spin as negative". They've made some good decisions and some bad ones, but these days every decision they make is spun as a bad one by some people. Which muddies the waters and makes all complains sound like noise.

For this Pinkerton's issue, the guy in question is satisfied with how it was resolved and continues to buy WOTC products and support them. WOTC won't say much other than they dispute his initial characterization of events. That should have been the end of things. That should have been enough for the topic to be discussed in terms that are less than "WOTC is dead to me!" level of outrage and would have been for most fields of conversation just 5 years ago, about any industry. But the way things are these days, it's all outrage machine all the time about everything and therefore nothing.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, and now we're back to "There is nothing WOTC can say or do that some won't spin as negative". They've made some good decisions and some bad ones, but these days every decision they make is spun as a bad one by some people. Which muddies the waters and makes all complains sound like noise.

For this Pinkerton's issue, the guy in question is satisfied with how it was resolved and continues to buy WOTC products and support them. WOTC won't say much other than they dispute his initial characterization of events. That should have been the end of things. That should have been enough for the topic to be discussed in terms that are less than "WOTC is dead to me!" level of outrage and would have been for most fields of conversation just 5 years ago, about any industry. But the way things are these days, it's all outrage machine all the time about everything and therefore nothing.

It's not just one incident though. Throw in OGL, sub par products, layoffs etc.

Corporations gonna Corporation they deserve it. Pump share price lay off staff screw them.