D&D General New Interview with Rob Heinsoo About 4E

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“I wasn’t involved and didn’t have much to do with it and demolished its core strengths with my version, but I think…”

In the actual interview this thread is about Rob talks about the MMO influence on 4E.

Starts at 53:20. The gist is something like "We were told that what we did needed to feel familiar to people who played digital games." "To be simpler in a sense instead of having to master a simulation."

Podcast 191 Mastering Dungeons | Mastering Dungeons
 
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There's nothing wrong with being influenced by MMOs or acknowledging it. For me, I think they chose the wrong things to copy because of the overhead involved.
 

  • Rob credits the negative reaction to 4E being because it changed both the rules and the setting, saying that it might have been better received if the setting stayed the same while the rules changed.
This rings true to me. Even if they had used a not-FR setting as the core setting - Greyhawk, Dark Sun (!?!), even Eberron - I think 4e may have done better. Tbh, Eberron would be a great setting to bring back 4e, if they ever decided to go that way (can't imagine the market circumstances that would make that appealing to Hasbro, but stranger thing can happen (like Stranger Things being super popular!))
 

(Do any MMO players act appalled when someone points out what their favorite game borrowed from DnD?)
People rarely use that as a negative assertion against MMO players like D&D players use it for...

  • Videogames in general
  • MMOs in particular
  • Diablo in Particular in Particular
  • Anime
  • Marvel Movies
  • Superheroes in general
  • Artificial Intelligence
  • Fan Fiction
  • The Act of Wearing Glasses

Because D&D players love love love making terrible arguments by association.
 



Starts at 53:20. The gist is something like "We were told that what we did needed to feel familiar to people who played digital games."
I do think that there are a lot of things that digital games do better than D&D. IMHO, video games do a better job at designing classes so that you feel like you are experiencing the class fantasy early on. Your necromancer, for example, should already feel like a necromancer at level 1.
 

This rings true to me. Even if they had used a not-FR setting as the core setting - Greyhawk, Dark Sun (!?!), even Eberron - I think 4e may have done better. Tbh, Eberron would be a great setting to bring back 4e, if they ever decided to go that way (can't imagine the market circumstances that would make that appealing to Hasbro, but stranger thing can happen (like Stranger Things being super popular!))
Really? Ebberon was designed hand-in glove with 3e mechanics, and involves a lot of extrapolation from those mechanics to the setting and the inverse, like sharply limiting high level characters to allow specific setting elements to flourish. I wouldn't jump there for a 4e reboot. Expanding Nentir Vale or maybe even taking another stab at Dark Sun feel more on target.
 

I do think that there are a lot of things that digital games do better than D&D. IMHO, video games do a better job at designing classes so that you feel like you are experiencing the class fantasy early on. Your necromancer, for example, should already feel like a necromancer at level 1.
Except the constant tinkering because of "balance."

I like that you do not start immediately as your subclass. It gives people time with the character and I have often seen folks who change their mind and choose after playing with the character for a bit.
 

Aside form ToTM, which was still possible, what else was 4e not supporting?
Casual play. 3.x was already complex (compared to ad&d 2e), 4e just upped the ante. While you still had simple classes in 3e, 4e got rid of them. You could whip up basic fighter in couple of minutes in 3e and all you had to remember was - full attack. That's it. Even wizards and clerics weren't that complex. You had slots and it's "use and loose". No recharge mechanic. Character resource management was way less complex in 3e, double so in 2e. I mean, you could play it more simple, ignore recharge, but it's playing against system.
 

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