D&D General New Interview with Rob Heinsoo About 4E

[zakael19]

I've never heard anyone, from 5e or any other system, with anything but positive things to say about Advantage/Disadvantage. So this surprises me.

Sorry this is a bit off topic;

Spoiler: Ramblings

If you took, the three action economy of PF2e, Proficiency bonus, and Advantage/Disadvantage. I think you can make an incredible simple, and deep, ttrpg.

If I was WotC I'd make 6th edition based on just those and swapping attributes to just the modifier. The math, assuming bounded accuracy, writes itself. It provides 3 tiers of effectiveness, PB, Adv, Adv+PB. It does everything you need out of the math.

The three action economy lets you drop weird rules like the restrictions on a second spell in a turn. Assuming WotC follows their own math, the home-brewing for this system is dead simple. Disadvantage on subsequent attacks is a cleaner solution then PF2e's current multiple attack penalty, you could also just deny PB on those attacks depending on how you balance it.

Adding complexity is easy with the 10 over or 10 under system on skills and statblocks. Kobold press is already using it in their new Monster Vault. On these items it doesnt have the memorization requirement of attaching it to various skill checks.

It's so clean. The basic rules could fit on 1 page. If WotC decides to do 6e without inventing anything new, I think this system writes itself.

It’s static though - you can’t have double advantage or double disadvantage. So there’s a finite limit to teamwork. It’s simple to comprehend and elegant but doesn’t have complexity. Eg: a rogue can now grant themselves advantage at will as long as they don’t move. What purpose teamwork and tactics there absent DM pressure?

Somewhere there’s a middle ground between 5e’s binary simplicity & 4e’s pile of modifiers.

 

[Chaltab]

It’s static though - you can’t have double advantage or double disadvantage. So there’s a finite limit to teamwork. It’s simple to comprehend and elegant but doesn’t have complexity. Eg: a rogue can now grant themselves advantage at will as long as they don’t move. What purpose teamwork and tactics there absent DM pressure?

Somewhere there’s a middle ground between 5e’s binary simplicity & 4e’s pile of modifiers.

Like maybe A5E expertise dice? I really don't want to get any more granular than that.

 

[overgeeked]

It’s static though - you can’t have double advantage or double disadvantage.

They should permit that. It would make all that teamwork relevant again.

So there’s a finite limit to teamwork. It’s simple to comprehend and elegant but doesn’t have complexity. Eg: a rogue can now grant themselves advantage at will as long as they don’t move.

I think everyone should get that ability. It makes perfect sense. Would also speed up fights. I really like the dis/advantage system. It's one of the things I think 5E absolutely nailed. Simple and elegant. I hate having players hunt for infinite +1s.

What purpose teamwork and tactics there absent DM pressure?

Most of it is in the fiction. But mechanically? Basically none.

Somewhere there’s a middle ground between 5e’s binary simplicity & 4e’s pile of modifiers.

I dunno. I'd rather they leaned into the simplicity. Just remove the binary.

 

[Undrave]

I've never heard anyone, from 5e or any other system, with anything but positive things to say about Advantage/Disadvantage.

It is fairly straight forward so it has that going for it, but there's so many way to gain advantage that it kinda lose its magic. I think it would work better if the game was even more simplified.

 

[Undrave]

Somewhere there’s a middle ground between 5e’s binary simplicity & 4e’s pile of modifiers.

Like maybe A5E expertise dice? I really don't want to get any more granular than that.

I dunno. I'd rather they leaned into the simplicity. Just remove the binary.

What if extra Advantage/Disadvantage was just a bonus (or penalty) smaller dice (d6 or d8?) instead of another d20 and you just can keep piling them (or taking them away) but you still just apply one of them instead of all of them?

 

[DinoInDisguise]

What if extra Advantage/Disadvantage was just a bonus (or penalty) smaller dice (d6 or d8?) instead of another d20 and you just can keep piling them (or taking them away) but you still just apply one of them instead of all of them?

This seems way more complicated then just adding D20s. Whats the gain?

 

[overgeeked]

What if extra Advantage/Disadvantage was just a bonus (or penalty) smaller dice (d6 or d8?) instead of another d20 and you just can keep piling them (or taking them away) but you still just apply one of them instead of all of them?

You could do that. But it removes the simplicity part of the equation, I think. People love rolling dice and it's not like 5E is designed to be challenging. Lean into the superhero angle and let the players feel awesome through their characters.

 

[Undrave]

This seems way more complicated then just adding D20s. Whats the gain?

It's always effectively just d20+d8 or d20-d8, but you get to have more granularity with your bonuses. Plus you get to roll a ton of dice if you go crazy

But it makes it less effective as a crit fishing mechanic.

Another idea would be a type of Advantage you can store when its given to you. You can use it at any time for attacks or saving throws or other ability check, and use it to cancel disadvantage. Could work like temp HP and go away with a rest.

 

[overgeeked]

If you look at advantage, it doesn't provide that big of a bonus. Roll 2, keep 1 is only effectively a +3.5. Roll 3, keep 1 is only a +5. Roll 4, keep 1 is only a +6. R2K1 gives you a ~10% chance of critting. R3K1 gives you a ~14.25% chance of critting. R4K1 gives you a ~18.5% chance of critting.

Sure, certain builds could exploit that. But so what? It's a superhero fantasy game. Lean into the superhero fantasy.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Don't feign offense.

Mod Note:

This was problematic. Please don’t presume to be a mind reader. Don’t accuse others of dishonesty when they express their opinions.

Don’t do that going forward.