D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

[Micah Sweet]

Then rename it. It's not divine intervention. I agree by the way, that the chances of success were too low in the 2014 version. 5% per level seems better. Gods don't always reply, but if the god is giving you the ability, it's not going to be as iffy as it used to be.

The current version feel more like a higher level version of Arcane Recovery than anything else.

 

[Horwath]

Then rename it. It's not divine intervention. I agree by the way, that the chances of success were too low in the 2014 version. 5% per level seems better. Gods don't always reply, but if the god is giving you the ability, it's not going to be as iffy as it used to be.

that can be debateable.

maybe it could have been ANY spell in the game up to 5th level or lower upcasted to 5th level.
That would be better as it is outside normal cleric abilities.

 

[James Gasik]

I care more about what the mechanics represent than how powerful they are (or aren't).

Out of curiosity, what would be an acceptable bridge to you, then? Was it fine being a potentially amazing ability that might never amount to anything in a game, as long as it fulfills it's stated goal of being "divine intervention"?

Do you see a path towards it being something that might actually happen without a reduction in power or scope?

Personally, I find the idea that any random 10th level Cleric, on any given week, has a flat 10% chance of invoking the full power of their deity regardless of circumstances to be a fairly ludicrous ability. Especially from a world-building outlook- is this something every "priest" has access to? Should I start giving every high-level NPC who is a divine caster a 10% chance to evoke godly power? How would that impact my setting or encounters?

Especially in the hands of evil and chaotic priests? Divine Intervention, if it is possible, should be a DM choice, not an enumerated ability of a character class- that cheapens it way more than being a "mere 5th level spell".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Out of curiosity, what would be an acceptable bridge to you, then? Was it fine being a potentially amazing ability that might never amount to anything in a game, as long as it fulfills it's stated goal of being "divine intervention"?

Do you see a path towards it being something that might actually happen without a reduction in power or scope?

Personally, I find the idea that any random 10th level Cleric, on any given week, has a flat 10% chance of invoking the full power of their deity regardless of circumstances to be a fairly ludicrous ability. Especially from a world-building outlook- is this something every "priest" has access to? Should I start giving every high-level NPC who is a divine caster a 10% chance to evoke godly power? How would that impact my setting or encounters?

Especially in the hands of evil and chaotic priests? Divine Intervention, if it is possible, should be a DM choice, not an enumerated ability of a character class- that cheapens it way more than being a "mere 5th level spell".

I'm fine with it being a very low chance, single digit percentage regardless of level. In my opinion, it shouldn't even be a class feature, just a thing you can try, since having faith isn't (or shouldn't be) limited to being a cleric, being a spellcaster at all, or even having a PC class. In short, much like the concept was depicted in the TSR days.

Because to me it should be very unreliable and available to anyone who believes, slotting a very specifically mechanized and balanced version of the ability into the cleric class actually seems somewhat crass.

 

[Stalker0]

And what is stopping you from still doing that?

The rules. Yes we all know that DMs can change any rule they want. But this is a change in the standard mechanic AND FLAVOR of how the cleric operates at most tables. Just because we can houserule any rule in the game doesn't mean its not worth a debate as to if the rule is good or not.

 

[Stalker0]

No-one is going to tell stories about that time Brianna the Barbarian got herself killed in battle but Cecil the Cleric used Divine Intervention for a raise dead spell to bring her back without spending diamonds. I mean, of course he did.

But if a party member fell in battle in 2014 and the cleric called for a successful divine intervention to bring them back mid-battle... I, for one, would bring them back with full hit points and some form of deity-appropriate buff for the duration of the combat. Since the ability has such a low chance of success, it should pack a mighty punch when it does work.

This is a fair point. In my campaigns over 8-9 years, I think I've had 2 divine interventions go off (though I don't generally have a lot of cleric players).

But I can say, the table went NUTS both times it happens, and it was a major save (the 2nd one probably saved them from a TPK). Its a story my table still tells to this day.

There is some truth in that by making it an automatic every day ability, it will take a lot of "awe" out of the ability.


Now that said, IF the ability is intended to take a 1 minute or 1 hour casting time and make it just 1 action, that is a HUGELY powerful ability. Take one look at hallow and tell me that slapping that down as an action in a fight isn't game changing. BUT, if it turns out that wasn't the intended effect, and you still have to spend the full casting time, then I will admit it is a bit of a "gloried spell slot".

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yup, it was unreliable. Which is why you don't rely on it. It's not supposed to be relied on. It's a literal Hail Mary.

It should have at least a reasonable chance to succeed. Coinflip or whatever.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You're right. Glorified is probably the wrong word, but divine intervention is likewise the wrong term. It's an improved/amplified/boosted spell slot.

That's semantics, though. You know what we were saying when we used "glorified." The ability(good as it is) as it stands is not worthy of being called divine intervention.

No, actually I did not know what you wanted to say. I explained my reasoning and my wish for this ability:

It being like a lesser form of the wish spell. Either copying a spell or a special effect you and your DM work out together.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The current version feel more like a higher level version of Arcane Recovery than anything else.

Nope. It is very different. Arcane recovery only allows you to cast a spell you have prepared again.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It should have at least a reasonable chance to succeed. Coinflip or whatever.

Not to my mind. See my longer post above.