D&D (2024) 5.24e New Cleric

[fluffybunbunkittens]

if the monk wants to give up their turn to grapple the cleric and move them around, I'd allow it - monks get like, what, 12 attacks per turn now?

It only takes 1 attack out of those to grapple the Cleric... Or the Cleric could trigger an opportunity attack from the Monk before it's the Monk's turn, and get grappled that way for free.

 

[Mistwell]

One of the things I suspect they're trying to do with some of the healing buffs is making healing no longer be a trap. As-is, you should almost never spend an action healing (unless it's to bring back someone who is downed), because that action is much more efficiently used damaging enemies and causing them to not hit in the first place. This buff helps make what people think clerics should do - heal - into something that is more useful.

The Spirit Guardians change was probably just to make the spell work like people assumed it worked anyway. I know it creates wacky edge cases but honestly if the monk wants to give up their turn to grapple the cleric and move them around, I'd allow it - monks get like, what, 12 attacks per turn now? (j/k but really, it's a lot.) It's a poor use of their action most of the time. If they want to pretend to be a cleric for moment, more power to them!

Sidebar: hello again Mistwell! Nice to see you still hang out here - I've been out for a bit.

Oh if only it were giving up their action to do it, sure. However, not only can Monks give up just one of their many attacks to Grapple, but some get a free grapple check. And then at 10th level all monks can expend a focus point to use Step of the Wind as a bonus action to dash and disengage AND choose a willing creature within 5 feet to move them with them until the end of the turn, and that movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. That movement can even be FLYING movement if you're an Elemental Monk. So the monk could dash for a bonus action with you, and then continue to move with you as their Move action, and THEN take their action.

Sprit Guardians might get ugly. And it's not the only spell to function this way.

And HELLO evilbob! Welcome back. Great to see you.

 

[Daztur]

One of the things I suspect they're trying to do with some of the healing buffs is making healing no longer be a trap. As-is, you should almost never spend an action healing (unless it's to bring back someone who is downed), because that action is much more efficiently used damaging enemies and causing them to not hit in the first place. This buff helps make what people think clerics should do - heal - into something that is more useful.

The Spirit Guardians change was probably just to make the spell work like people assumed it worked anyway. I know it creates wacky edge cases but honestly if the monk wants to give up their turn to grapple the cleric and move them around, I'd allow it - monks get like, what, 12 attacks per turn now? (j/k but really, it's a lot.) It's a poor use of their action most of the time. If they want to pretend to be a cleric for moment, more power to them!

Sidebar: hello again Mistwell! Nice to see you still hang out here - I've been out for a bit.

Buffing healing makes sense to make 5.5e more tactically interesting as healing in combat is less of a trap option, which matters since spamming heals in combat is something a lot of newbies do and I have for obvious newbie tactics to be traps.

But this change comes with a trade-off. The ratio between total party HPs and total party healing capacity has been changed. This means that it takes more damage go attrit down a party's HPs, meaning it'll generally take more fights to do so. As 5e already takes a looooooong time to attrit down player HPs this is making a problem I already had with 5e worse.

What annoys me is that the solution to this issue is staring them right in the face: turn Hit Dice back into Healing Surges. Allow clerics to heal a lot in combat but have that cost healing surges (so Cure Wounds heals you 1d8+ lets you spend a Hit Dice if you want, or just let's you spend healing surges like in 4e).

That way you get the tactical fix (healing in combst isn't a trap anymore) and a strategic fix (player resources don't take forever to attrit down).

Seems like it could be houseruled in pretty easily though.

 

[TheSword]

I’ve decided to ban Spirit Guardians in my games going forward. I find it a spell that becomes very repetitive and it just becomes the clerics default concentration spell. We didn’t have it for four editions, I won’t miss it now.

 

[mellored]

Is there anything stopping you taking the Thaumaturge option from Divine Order, then picking a 2014 domain that grants Heavy Armour and Martial weapons at lvl 3?

Nothing is stopping you from taking fighter 1, and then Thaumaturge.

 

[MoonSong]

As much as I'll miss order cleric dips, they really had to move subclasses up to 3rd level to reduce the temptation to dip. This makes sense.

It was a deal breaker to me. Maybe not by itself, but when compounded with all other bad changes.

 

[mellored]

Sprit Guardians might get ugly. And it's not the only spell to function this way.

Flurry is over double the damage, and focus fire is better.

3d8 (13.5) AoE
 vs
3d8+15 (28.5)

Also elemental monks already have a 3d8 AoE with massive range.


So while spirit drag may feel cheesy, it's really not all that strong. Unless you again a horde of zombies or something.

 

[mellored]

It was a deal breaker to me. Maybe not by itself, but when compounded with all other bad changes.

Are you at least going to use the new Starry Wisp cantrip? And new True Strike? And new potion rule? And new cure wounds? And new Blade Ward? And new Wrathful Smite? And new Polymorph? And the new Force Cage?

 

[Kobold Stew]

I'm just sad my favorite domains aren't there yet. But I'm the weirdo who loves Grave and Arcana clerics, so I know I'll be waiting a long time for an update

I was a big fan of the Arcana cleric too, since that was the only way as a cleric to get an attack cantrip that you rolled to hit and that used your Wisdom. (It's more fun to roll to ht than to make the creature save to avoid damage, for me at least).

With the background feats now, Magic Initiate and species like High Elf or Tiefling let you use any casting stat with the cantrips they give, so both of them let you use Wisdom if you want. There's many more ways to get what I saw as the "best" part of the Arcana cleric.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I was a big fan of the Arcana cleric too, since that was the only way as a cleric to get an attack cantrip that you rolled to hit and that used your Wisdom. (It's more fun to roll to ht than to make the creature save to avoid damage, for me at least).

With the background feats now, Magic Initiate and species like High Elf or Tiefling let you use any casting stat with the cantrips they give, so both of them let you use Wisdom if you want. There's many more ways to get what I saw as the "best" part of the Arcana cleric.

My favorite part wad the dispel effect on heals. It's super niche, but its super thematic.