Project Sigil All the Deets on Project Sigil the D&D 3D Virtual Tabletop

• Danger in Dunbarrow is the adventure designed to introduced the 3D tabletop.
• Bring in any character from D&D Beyond.
• 'Mini Maker' lets you design digital miniatures.
• Assets designed to feel like buying a high-end mini or figure somewhere between painted and realistic.
• Plug in locations like graveyard, mine, town each with a premade story you can use or ignore.
• "Modding games more than making them whole cloth."
• The Level Builder is like 'the best miniatures set that you could have'. Snap together different kit pieces.
• Secret doors, traps, lifts that go up and down.
• Also use 2D tokens with artwork you have.
• Also use 2D maps.
• You can play other games with it, not just D&D.
• Have Drizzt fight Optimus Prime.
• Share content with others.
• Starting on PC, other platforms later including mobile and console.
• Will be available to try out for free.
• Closed beta coming this fall for those with a DDB account.
• Pre-order 2024 physical and digital core rulebook bundle to get a free digital gold dragon mini to 'kickstarter your Project Sigil collection'.

 

[doctorhook]

A company controlling their own product is not a "monopoly". The D&D brand may be the 800 pound gorilla in the room but they are still licensing the rules to other VTTs. Obviously they hope to be popular and may someday be a big player. But I don't ever expect them to dominate the market and if they do it will be because they have a superior product. But even if they ever do dominate the market (which would likely take years because people are invested in other tools), it will still be a crowded marketplace.

I have no expectations for the VTT one way or another. At some point I may experiment with it because we have a couple of players that are remote (we currently use a camera pointed at gaming grid) and from what I've seen it looks like something I'd prefer over Roll20, the VTT I used during COVID. But if I ever do, it will be because it works better than other VTTs at a competitive price.

Yes they are trying to make the product look good. That's what people do when they want to sell something.

Sigil is a platform. WotC controls it 100%. They own the marketplace within the Sigil platform, meaning that they decide who sells there and they get a cut from every sale. This is a monopoly because they control the entire market within the platform. And this platform is destined to be HUGE—it will threaten Roll20 and FG and Foundry and the others just by virtue of its brand and investment.

I’m honestly confused by this argument. I don’t feel like you’re reading what I’m saying. Clearly I’m a bit more cynical and youre a bit more optimistic about Sigil, but I’m not even clear what we’re quibbling about anymore. Other than definitions and speculation.

 

[doctorhook]

It makes no sense to assume messed up monetization until we actually see evidence of it.
Especially since we haven’t had messed up monetization yet.

True, but it’s perfectly reasonable to speculate on the business model based on the same company’s current practices with other products and our understanding of this product’s functionality.

 

[Oofta]

I think I would use Foundry if I moved into the VTT space. Several games I enjoy, including Level Up, use it.

I briefly looked into Foundry but it looked like a lot of effort to get it working. A lot of people love it though, so it just depends on what you're looking for. Since I had no intention of using after COVID restrictions relaxed it wasn't for me.

 

[Oofta]

MTG is another flagship product by the same company, and WotC has copied aspects of that model many times in the past. It’s silly to assume that they can’t or won’t again. It’s hardly conspiracy to speculate that they might use the same digital paywall tactics in Sigil as they’ve used in Arena or MTGO.

WotC will have monopoly control over Sigil, even if they allow other systems to sell on their platform. That’s beyond dispute unless you can show me news of Kobold Press buying an ownership stake in this platform.

Sigil will be immediately competitive with other VTTs just because of the D&D brand, even if the software is trash. (No reason to assume it’ll be trash either.) Hasbro is spending a lot of money to make a Roll20 killer here.

You even admit that there will be lots of other revenue opportunities within Sigil, so why are you so adamant that they would never charge for multiple copies of 3D minis? You’re so sure that they would never that you won’t admit that they definitely could.

The cards you get for MtG have a direct impact on whether or not you win the game. Visual assets do not help you "win" D&D any more than fancy dice, minis, or terrain from Dwarven Forge.

I really don't know why you're harping on this idea that Sigil is a "monopoly". A company controlling their own product is not what the word "monopoly" means. On the other hand Sigil will integrate with DDB and Kobold Press is now selling products on DDB which means that yes, Sigil will support Kobold Press indirectly. It's also being designed to play whatever game you want. Yes, Sigil will have a leg up that other companies do not have. But if that was all you needed to be successful was being associated to a successful company we'd all be using Microsoft's Zune and Ford's Edsel would have been a best seller.

I see no reason to think they will expect people to pay for multiple copies of the same 3D mini. No other VTT does it now. Could they? Of course. They could also install a virus that secretly drains your bank account. There's no reason for them to do that either. I'm sure there will be plenty of ways to spend money on Sigil just like every other VTT, it just won't be anything that stupid.

 

[MoonSong]

I'm sure they'll have some sort of storefront, and a "miniature box" where you can sort through your minis (animated or not) and use them on the tabletop as well as create copies so you could drop half a dozen orcs onto the map, etc. I'd hope you could buy individual minis or sets of minis for various games.

Here's hoping that we can sell our own minis...

 

[Clint_L]

Sigil is a platform. WotC controls it 100%. They own the marketplace within the Sigil platform, meaning that they decide who sells there and they get a cut from every sale. This is a monopoly because they control the entire market within the platform. And this platform is destined to be HUGE—it will threaten Roll20 and FG and Foundry and the others just by virtue of its brand and investment.

I’m honestly confused by this argument. I don’t feel like you’re reading what I’m saying. Clearly I’m a bit more cynical and youre a bit more optimistic about Sigil, but I’m not even clear what we’re quibbling about anymore. Other than definitions and speculation.

Definitions are important when you use a term such as "monopoly," which has legal implications. You seem to be using it in a more casual sense.

 

[billd91]

Sigil is a platform. WotC controls it 100%. They own the marketplace within the Sigil platform, meaning that they decide who sells there and they get a cut from every sale. This is a monopoly because they control the entire market within the platform. And this platform is destined to be HUGE—it will threaten Roll20 and FG and Foundry and the others just by virtue of its brand and investment.

I’m honestly confused by this argument. I don’t feel like you’re reading what I’m saying. Clearly I’m a bit more cynical and youre a bit more optimistic about Sigil, but I’m not even clear what we’re quibbling about anymore. Other than definitions and speculation.

I think the term your grappling for here is "walled garden". WotC won't be a monopoly with Sigil because there will be other VTT platforms that will continue to have a significant presence in the market as a whole. It's going to be closer to a walled garden in the sense that, with control of their platform, they have the final say on what gets in and can set terms of use in how it's deployed. They say that they're going to allow various 3pp materials and, of course, home brewed stuff including 2d tokens, so that wall will have a number of points of entry for content that isn't their own. But there will be a substantial amount they will control since it is their platform and they'll decide how much of their time is worth investing in any initiative that primarily helps other companies rather than themselves.

 

[Umbran]

Why assume they WON’T use business practices that are already common and which they’ve already used on other products?

Because they are common other other types of games, not TTRPGs?

We all understand the point that corporations are greedy. However, the common practices you are discussing are specific to modern videogames. D&D has a passing resemblance to those games, but only a passing one, such that those practices would tend to fail to generate revenue when applied to a human-driven TTRPG.

Corporations are greedy. But they want to succeed at being greedy, not fail.

 

[Umbran]

Sigil is a platform. WotC controls it 100%. They own the marketplace within the Sigil platform, meaning that they decide who sells there and they get a cut from every sale. This is a monopoly because they control the entire market within the platform.

A monopoly is when you control the market as a whole, not when you control your own product/platform.

WotC does not have a monopoly, because nobody has to use Sigil to play - not to play D&D, not to play D&D on a VTT, nor to play any other game.

 

[Theory of Games]

Ok, How does "Pay to win" D&D work? Do not just point at BG 3 and Fortnite and say "Pay to win" that tells me nothing because both of those are computer games. The play loop is controlled by code and a cpu, and pay to win can be embedded into the code.
How, in a game of D&D with a DM and players does one "Pay to win"? Buy the DM more pizza? single Malt Scotch?

I'm just speculating: every PC on Sigil gets the basic equipment and maybe you can unlock Masterwork items by completing objectives. BUT, the good MAGICAL stuff will require you PAY for it. It's almost exactly how Fortnite, Warzone and certain other video games work. So, the players who pay the most for elite gear WIN more. I read an article yesterday about the possibility of D&D losing its longtime "cooperative gameplay" foundation due to how competitive pay-to-win games are. I can't stop thinking of the impact Hight could have with all this, going forward.

Why wouldn’t they just release a new separate game under the D&D brand that has this and keep TTRPG D&D as-is?

I think they might, depending on how well Sigil does. Professor DM at Dungeon Craft just posted a video about DDB and WotC that has some bearing here: