How Dragonbane Pointed out the Clashing Desires of My Gaming Group

[Retreater]

Change to one of the modern systems that encourage involvement during off turns with reaction. Like MCDM.

Haha. Good suggestions up there. I rarely sit when DMing, except recently since I broke my toe. Once I'm back on my feet, I'll be ... back on my feet.

I do have the MCDM playtest rules. Here's my concern about the "off turn reactions" concept of modern design. Remember that we recently completed the 8 month campaign of 4E. There are fewer games out there that have off turn player involvement. The issue we ran into was that all the stopping in turns dragged out the entire combat round, everyone would disengage, and that would stop people from interacting when it wasn't their turn because a round of combat would take 40 minutes or more. Of course, I haven't seen how MCDM handles it in person, but that's my hesitancy. Overall, I think just having fast turns should be enough to keep them engaged. Plus, it's a lot less headspace for me as the GM.

 

[Moonmover]

Just to distill what they want…

• No real roleplaying stakes or exploration
• Interesting tactical combat that isn’t actually threatening
• Full HP and power recharge between battles
• Can’t be a miniatures wargame because it needs to be fought in squares – not measuring tape (my wife’s specification)
• Handwave all tracking of resources, including rations, torches, arrows, etc.

I hate to tell you this, but it sounds like they should go back to 4e.

Which, if that isn't what you want to run, you don't have to. Being a GM isn't your profession. If you aren't having fun, stop.

 

[Retreater]

Oh god, they want 3E.

Oh no! That's the one system I've sworn I'd never run again. Not even for a hearty handshake and a "job well done."

 

[payn]

PF2

 

[Retreater]

I hate to tell you this, but it sounds like they should go back to 4e.

But, you know, they didn't seem to like a lot of that, either. Maybe if it was more like the Lair Assault program? Just have an exciting fight and then come back next week for another encounter.
Like, they wouldn't interact with roleplaying in 4e. Or rituals. Or making magic item wishlists. Or skill challenges. Or really play well tactically. So most of the best parts of 4E were lost on them anyway.

 

[KYRON45]

Have you asked them what game they would like to play?

 

[Retreater]

PF2

Oh ... dear lord. Has it come to that?

But the few issues we have...

• We're now down to three players, so traditional D&D class-based RPGs aren't going to work the best.
• It's probably just as crunchy as 4E, and they can't be bothered to learn the games we play.
• They're gonna get slaughtered. And I'll be on here every week asking "how do I keep my PCs from dying" because they keep using their 3rd action to attack at a -10 (but forget to apply the penalty and get mad at me when I remind them).

 

[Gorgon Zee]

But, you know, they didn't seem to like a lot of that, either. Maybe if it was more like the Lair Assault program? Just have an exciting fight and then come back next week for another encounter.
Like, they wouldn't interact with roleplaying in 4e. Or rituals. Or making magic item wishlists. Or skill challenges. Or really play well tactically. So most of the best parts of 4E were lost on them anyway.

Have you looked into 13th Age? It has a lot of similarity to 4E -- but not so intense and much easier to play in a casual fashion. It allows players to play with a range of levels of engagement and the character classes allow people to choose how much crunch they want to deal with. I've found that very tactical people (while preferring 4E) enjoy it, as do people who'd prefer something more narrative like FATE.

 

[Retreater]

Have you asked them what game they would like to play?

It's the old issue of when people describe buzzwords or what they think you want to hear.

• "Deep, tactical play."
• "Extravagant character customization."
• "Mysterious political machinations."
• "Rich tapestry of world building."
• "Moving roleplaying experiences."

Yet, their characters are named like "Farty McButtface" and spend their time trying to nail the wenches.

The only one who is honest with me is my wife.
Here are some quotes. "Basically, I just want to be powerful and kick ass. I want to roll 41 points of damage. I don't want to talk to the NPCs or follow a story. I want to be a rogue and sneak attack for lots of damage. I don't want to guess where to search for a trap - I want to make a check and have that determined. All the other stuff between the fights is just fluff that takes away our time that we could be having fun."

 

[Mistwell]

Man, that is really rough. I am sorry Retreater, that's a bad spot you're in and I'd be depressed in your shoes.

I don't have good advice at the moment but will think on it. I do wonder if you've tried something rules-lite but combat-heavy? Like maybe a one-shot of Old School Hack?