D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[UngeheuerLich]

The original D&D Ranger had Magic-User spells and none of their spells resembled Hunter's Mark in any way. Further the original AD&D 1E Magic-User class included both Wizards and Sorcerers.

That is some very loose reading.

"More" is a relative term and giving them Wizard and Sorcerer abilities it is "more" fitting than giving them Hunter's Mark.

Nope. Hard disagree.

Everything about Hunter's Mark represents "lazy design" and adding it as a class ability doubles down on that laziness.

Better than just pillaging caster classes.

The ranger did get spells only at higher levels. And I am not sure 1e is a good start. By that standard the bard needs to be a fighter/thief/druid.

I think 2e and 3e did more to establish class fantasy. And there Two Weapon Fighting and later archery actually stood out. And having some rogue skills. 4e added hunter's mark.

Since two weapon fighting and hunter's mark are not special anymore, that leaves hunter's mark.

 

[FrogReaver]

Please don't make assumptions. This capstone change is the only thing I proposed as it is the only problem I see. An average of 4 damage increase for ranged rangers is very disappointing.

It has always advantage because hunter's mark. So please remove the 70%. (edit: misunderstood you there... you 54.6 is calculated with advantage).

Good to see we on the same page so far.

This is actually a good calculation why I think it is close enough.

Remember that the fighter can action surge twice per short rest.
The ranger can swift quiver twice per long rest. Swift quiver concentration can easily be broken.

True but ranger will get a at least 1 round if use of it and probably more per cast.

You also forgot to factor in studied attacks.

True. Studied attacks is essentially 1-(chance to hit) chance to get advantage for every attack after your first. Advantage from 70% to 91% is +21% accuracy for 30% of attacks = +6.3% of your damage per attack = 4.5+5+6= a little less than +1 DPR per attack. About +4 DPR for 4 attacks. +8 over 8 attacks for action surge turn.

You also made a mistake with the ranger when factoring in great weapon fighting. They only get it for half their attacks, as it explicitely does not work with a bonus action.

True

So the ranger is only at 65.5 DPR and the fighter is above your calculated 86.8 DPR Probably quite a bit above 90 DPR (a bit too much work right now to calculate exactly).

I think you’ve convinced me.

 

[g00se99994]

I'm not crazy about their AC and defensive capabilities. They get a D10 hit die, so that's good. Also medium armor and shield, not bad at all too. But if you want to use ranged you will need to drop the shield because it takes an action to equip. Best offense on Ranger is now dual wield and at low level that means you will have probably a 16 AC, not great for a front liner so you will get hit a bunch. Then you don't have class abilities to mitigate the damage (rage, uncanny dodge, deflect attacks etc). Anyway you can still have fun with this class but not really feeling it.

 

[Minigiant]

Level 1
Choose either to be a Hunter or Trapper. Your choice gives you additional features at levels 10, 17, and 20
Hunter: you get Hunter's Mark (as written)
Trapper: you get Ensnaring Stike.

1: you can cast Ensnaring Stike extra times without expending a spell slot.
10: Ensnaring Stike can target Huge creatures.
17: The target of your Ensnaring Strike has disadvantage on their first save.
20: Ensnaring Strike can target any sized creature. They also can not teleport.

"But I want Goodberry" says the other fan.

 

[Minigiant]

That should just be built into Hunter Mark itself. Irrelevant of anything else.

That was another spell that never was converted over from third edition.

 

[mellored]

Nice. IMHO.
But people will say it costs you a bonus action and concentration. So they won't be satisfied.

Sure.

1: Goodberry.
13: creates 15 berries
17: each berry heals for 2 HP.
20: creates 20 berries

(Didn't do any math
6*20*2 = 240 extra HP, probably ok)

 

[mellored]

That was another spell that never was converted over from third edition.

It doesn't need much. The spell already gives you advantage to find it.


"You magically mark one creature, or tracks of a creature, you can see within range as your quarry."

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not crazy about their AC and defensive capabilities. They get a D10 hit die, so that's good. Also medium armor and shield, not bad at all too. But if you want to use ranged you will need to drop the shield because it takes an action to equip. Best offense on Ranger is now dual wield and at low level that means you will have probably a 16 AC, not great for a front liner so you will get hit a bunch. Then you don't have class abilities to mitigate the damage (rage, uncanny dodge, deflect attacks etc). Anyway you can still have fun with this class but not really feeling it.

I agree. That said a dex based fighter doesn’t really get significantly more defensive features either.

 

[g00se99994]

I agree. That said a dex based fighter doesn’t really get significantly more defensive features either.

True, although they can go plate mail, be battlemaster and parry, eldritch knight shield, psi warrior protective shield or second wind and stay in the action. To be fair, Rangers can cure wounds but they lose their action which stings.

 

[FrogReaver]

True, although they can go plate mail,

There’s trade offs to investing so much in str. Less dex, wis or con typically. Any of which may be more important defensively than +1 ac. Save effects for these can be nasty. And low dex impacts initiative and ranged damage potential as well.

be battlemaster and party

Rangers get entangle/plant growth to keep enemies away. They also have subclass features that boost defense directly, or indirectly like the beast masters beast that will take some hits the ranger otherwise may have.

or second wind and stay in the action. To be fair, Rangers can cure wounds but they lose their action which stings.

Sure but level 1-10 rangers are likely doing more damage than fighters, so they can give up more damage for defense and still be equal. It just may ‘feel’ a bit more clunky.