Vaalingrade
Legend
Again, level 5 and wizard level 3 spells being 'high'.
And also again this compared to 'not sucking at being a support class' via Warmage.
D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
And also again this compared to 'not sucking at being a support class' via Warmage.
OptionalRule
Hyperion
The new edition of D&D is definitely another notch up on the power-creep ladder. Adding feats at first level, improving backgrounds, and allowing mix-and-match races all contribute to increased power levels. It's probably more powerful than any other version. I would prefer if it were more flexible in supporting different styles of play. Superhero TTRPGs understand this concept and almost all provide ways to tailor characters for different power levels, from street-level to cosmic. Now that D&D is essentially a full-on superhero game, I wish it would do the same.
That said, most of the examples I see are kind of trolling the rules or at least twisting them. D&D isn't a computer game; it's not meant to withstand pedantic or passive-aggressive styles of play based entirely on the rules. The game can be easily broken with bad faith play styles. It works best when everyone understands what the game is about (as defined by the group) and goes along with the spirit of that style of play. "Because I can" is not a good enough reason for anything, and most people know when they're twisting things in a way that throws a curveball to the rest of the group.
This is also why some people will read this and think it isn't an issue at all. Either they all play like that, or none of them play like that, in which case the group works just fine. The fundamental assumption is that everyone in a D&D group takes a minute to understand the style of game they are agreeing to and gives some thought to maintaining that.
So, is the system overpowered? Yes. Are the rules the only reason it plays poorly? No. Player choice matters too.
That said, most of the examples I see are kind of trolling the rules or at least twisting them. D&D isn't a computer game; it's not meant to withstand pedantic or passive-aggressive styles of play based entirely on the rules. The game can be easily broken with bad faith play styles. It works best when everyone understands what the game is about (as defined by the group) and goes along with the spirit of that style of play. "Because I can" is not a good enough reason for anything, and most people know when they're twisting things in a way that throws a curveball to the rest of the group.
This is also why some people will read this and think it isn't an issue at all. Either they all play like that, or none of them play like that, in which case the group works just fine. The fundamental assumption is that everyone in a D&D group takes a minute to understand the style of game they are agreeing to and gives some thought to maintaining that.
So, is the system overpowered? Yes. Are the rules the only reason it plays poorly? No. Player choice matters too.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Can we bury the flagrant misuse of the word 'superhero'?
Like it's very clear the implication has NOTHING to do with the genre and everything to do with completely and possibly deliberately misunderstanding the power level of a genre whose #1 most recognizable representative has zero fantastic powers aside from having more money than a human ought to.
Like it's very clear the implication has NOTHING to do with the genre and everything to do with completely and possibly deliberately misunderstanding the power level of a genre whose #1 most recognizable representative has zero fantastic powers aside from having more money than a human ought to.
Zardnaar
Legend
Well what was the specific broken thing. What's a 5th level wizard doing in the phb? Casting haste once?
4th level here we are looking at 18d4 damage, Monks doing 90 odd damage a round before level 10 and spirit guardians potentially doing 3d8per opponent per PC at level 5.
At comparatively low levels. Level 11 fighter in 2014 with the -5/10 feats was the older version of that.
They're beating the 3.5 lvl 6 natural Druid in damage.
And people thought I'm being hyperbolic lol.
Without the cheesecake combos the power level is higher than 2014. Mist of the other combos still work (haste and -5/+10 feats don't) and 5E power levels lower levels exceed 3.5 phb imho.
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Vaalingrade
Legend
Well for on Fly seems to make a lot of DMs very, very sad for very, very bad reasons.
Also, your damage number examples don't mean a lot right after you talk about HP inflation.
Zardnaar
Legend
5E wizard can still cast fly and more often than 3.5.
I'm saying boom spells basically suck in 5E due to hit point inflation. They could scale for free a'la 3.5 and they would still be mediocre.
There's a few exceptions at low level or because of rider effects. Eg guiding bolt, destructive wave at level 9/10, or synaptic static.
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MichaelSomething
Legend
Sarcastism, like lies, work best when built with a foundation of truth.
Spiderman?
Vaalingrade
Legend
Obviously, yes.
I'm going to add that I also think damage spells are typically a poor option versus control spells. It's the same issue with healing spells being less efficient than damage mitigation.
I can cast one spell that both facilitates damage and prevents damage with something like Sleep or Hold Person / Monster then I think that's a better use of the spell slot than something like Thunderwave, Shatter, or Fireball.
Martial characters do a lot of damage. AoE's only add up damage in numbers.
I can cast one spell that both facilitates damage and prevents damage with something like Sleep or Hold Person / Monster then I think that's a better use of the spell slot than something like Thunderwave, Shatter, or Fireball.
Martial characters do a lot of damage. AoE's only add up damage in numbers.
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