D&D (2024) Dungeon Master's Guide Bastion System Lets You Build A Stronghold

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The Dungeon Master's Guide's brand new Bastion System has been previewed in a new video from Wizards of the Coast.

Characters can acquire a bastion at 5th-level. Each week, the bastion takes a turn, with actions including crafting, recruiting, research, trade, and more.

A bastion also contains a number of special facilties, starting with two at 5th-level up to 6 at 17th-level. These facilities include things like armories, workshops, laboratories, stables, menageries, and more. In total there are nearly thirty such facilities to choose from.

 

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Mod Note:

Where to begin? Last things first:


Next person who takes anything I say and make any assumptions about me, my players or my game, gets added to ignore list. Wanna judge me as a DM or a player? Play a game with me first.
IDK how many times I’ve said this, but your moderation staff would appreciate people NOT announcing/promising/threatening the use of their ignore lists. It escalates tensions, making our task more difficult.

Use your lists as you see fit, sparingly or profligately. But use them silently.

Next, while NaD’s post made things personal, theirs was not the first such stone thrown.

If you feel the temptation to launch a zinger at someone in particular- whether first or in retaliation- just DON’T. It’s another behavior that tends to raise the local temperature.

Handle your disagreements with civility, not venom, please.
 

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These are problems entirely of your own making. If Celesta was on the last adventure, it follows that she was not at her stronghold, which in turn entails that if any murder occurred there, she didn't know about it. Which is hardly an unrealistic possibility!
One could fudge it such that the murder took place after Celesta last left her stronghold, sure. Or - given that this is being driven by a dice roll anyway - one could choose not to fudge and let the dice fall where they may. IMO the latter is the high road, but in situations like this it can lead to other problems.

The solution is to maintain sequentiality. If there's a spy in the stronghold, that needs to be known by the DM up front such that the spy's actions can be any or all of foreshadowed, telegraphed, tracked, discovered, acted upon, etc. without having to retcon anything.
Writers of serial fiction (TV shoes, comics, etc) deal with these issues all the time, in a context of commercial production/publication that is being scrutinised and enjoyed by millions of people.
Those writers usually have the rather large advantage of knowing in advance how everything turns out in the end, meaning they can do whatever's necessary to make sure things arrive at that end at the required time (i.e. the last show of the season).

Taking this approach to running an RPG would, I suspect, quickly lead to charges of raliroading; and in this case I'd agree.
I think the GM of a RPG can handle establishing a few bits of new fiction, and fitting them into the established past facts of the game, easily enough.
The butterfly effect would suggest otherwise. I've seen times where trying to retcon what seems like the most trivial of things into the established fiction has had the potential for enough major knock-on effects to the fiction generated since that point to make the retcon impossible.

Example:

Original fiction has a character building a pub with the party's help; the pub is finished on Auril 2 whereupon the party immediately goes off adventuring.

Some time later (6 months in real time, 2 months in game time) the player says "Wait - I meant to hire staff for the pub before we left!" "OK," says I; "that would have added 2 days to the process, meaning you left on the 4th instead."

Trivial change, right?

Well, hang on now. If they left 2 days later that bumps everything they did after that ahead by 2 days, meaning that instead of meeting the King on their return on Auril 23 they now would meet him on the 25th...except he dies on the 24th and this death on that date has already had material effects elsewhere not just for this party but for other characters and parties as well.

And suddenly something that initially seemed trivial has become very messy indeed. And so, having seen this sort of thing before, my-as-DM initial response to the player's attempted retcon would be quite different than what I put in the example. :)
 


Zone of Truth is trivially easy to compromise with even a modicum of effort.
Oh? How so? (assuming it's being enforced properly)
Games are not reality. You are not honorbound to make every PC who wants to have a supporting cast act as a paranoid hiring manager, in real time, at the table, just because people lie in real life. You even said in your aside about your history it was 2 out of 60, that is 3%. That is a margin of error in most statistics, so... why not round it to 0% the majority of the time? Because reality? That's a pretty poor reason to make a game less fun and more hostile.
More hostile does not necessarily equate to less fun. :)
Ah yes, traps. Classically never a thing that has ever caused any problems, debates, or dozens upon dozens of articles about how they are poorly used, poorly thought out, and are likely harming the game from misuse. As long as it is like traps, then there should never be any discussion about whether or not it is the right thing to do.
Traps are nearly always the right thing to do, but then again I'm in the unpopular minority who actually endorse gotcha DMing from both sides of the screen if the players aren't cautious (and if they are, that caution should be rewarded with a considerably lower frequency of gotchas).
Which, also, just wanting to point out. This isn't an "all NPCS" thing. This is literally a sub-set of NPCs. Just like you hopefully don't trap the doors to an inn, why would we need to have our personal maids vetted to make sure they aren't traitors?
Information is power. To gather power one must gather information. Result: spies are a common thing.

Also, people are people; and money sometimes speaks rather loudly and persuasively to those who otherwise would be loyal.
Why should every single NPC in your entire house have the potential to slit your throat while you slept? Why can't that just... not be a thing, because it would make for a terrible game experience to actually have that happen?
As a powerful adventurer I have made a lot of enemies in a lot of places (including, in this character's case, an entire nation). The moment I stop respecting that fact - and taking precautions because of it - is the moment I'm in big deep trouble.
Oh, and lets say they did slit your character's throat. How long would it be before you decided to take a leap of faith on trusting a goblin again? After all, you were proven that you were wrong to trust them, so why trust them in the future?
If I'd got my throat slit I'd be even more careful on my due diligence in the future, you can be assured of that. :)
And at that point, as I said, you can exclude every single Bastion NPC, and still have 5% of all NPCs in the game be potential traitors. You don't need to also include Bastions.
If the player bothers to even mention that the PC is somehow vetting the hirelings, odds are very high there'll be no problem and the hirelings will be decent. Fail to take that little step, however, and the door's wide open for me to mess with stuff.
 

Traps are nearly always the right thing to do, but then again I'm in the unpopular minority who actually endorse gotcha DMing from both sides of the screen if the players aren't cautious (and if they are, that caution should be rewarded with a considerably lower frequency of gotchas).

/snip

If I'd got my throat slit I'd be even more careful on my due diligence in the future, you can be assured of that. :)
Urg. Yuck.

My days of treating everything like a bomb squad, pixel bitching my way through the dungeon with a 10 foot pole are thankfully long behind me. I'm not against traps when they make sense and they make an encounter interesting, but, yeah, the whole "gotcha" thing is something I'm glad has been largely relegated to the dustbin.

And, again, IME, what happens when you have that sort of NPC that kills your character in his sleep is that the players stop interacting with npc's
 
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Urg. Yuck.

My days of treating everything like a bomb squad, pixel bitching my way through the dungeon with a 10 foot pole are thankfully long behind me. I'm not against traps when they make sense and they make an encounter interesting, but, yeah, the whole "gotcha" thing is something I'm glad has been largely relegated to the dustbin.

And, again, IME, what happens when you have that sort of NPC that kills your character in his sleep is that the players stop interacting with npc's
Yes, this doesn’t produce cautious players, it produces paranoid players who take three hours to move 5 feet.
 

If the risk is purely hypothetical - which in this context means it's purely imaginary, given that no reason has been given to think that the hypothesis is plausible - then why do we need to even worry about it?

Again with the catch-22. If it happenned at someone's table, then it's fault of the individual, and not the rules that allowed it. If it didn't hapenned at someone's table, then it means it won't happen and rules are fine. It's a deflection from criticism. Just because I didn't personally had my game ruined by bad rules doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact the rules are bad.

To offer a parallel - to the best of my knowledge, every version of D&D permits a player to decide if their PC has any scars, birthmarks etc. This is not within the remit of the GM. Do we need to change that allocation of authority because I can imagine a PC deciding that their PC has some crass/vulgar/hateful symbol emblazoned on their face in the form of a scar or birthmark?
Of course. We had this thing called session 0, on which we set up what we want in the campaign. If a player decided to cross that line I have an authority to put my foot down. If the player argues what we established as offensive content doesn't apply to his own character because he has control over it, then the player is not a good fit to the table.

By this logic, where player gets ultimate freedom at expense of the GM, that you are championing, as a GM I am no longer allowed to list my own triggers and hard lines. One of my hard noes is gases and extrements - burping, farting, poor and rest of toilet humor - because it makes me want to vomit. A player following your logic can argue I am not allowed to set a line against it because it is their character and they decide whenever their character burps or farts, and if that makes me sick, I should go ef myself because I'm a GM and giving a foot back to the GM is destruction of player freedom and creativity.

And to return to your imagined scenario: if it were to really come about that a player was playing a PC who (i) purported to be the leader of a community of devout and honourable knights, and (ii) was themself a scoundrel, and yet (iii) the player was not interested in exploring the tensions between (i) and (ii), or the consequences that (ii) might have for (i), then the problem would not be the bastion rules. The problem would be one or both of: (a) the player is not very good (or worse); (b) the player and the GM have different ideas about how they want to do their RPGing.
I'm of beleif even the best players will behave in the way encouraged by the rules. And rules that can be exploited actively encourage being exploited and encourage bad behavior. A player who abuses bastion rules is not doing anything the rules did not encoruage them to do and may not even think of doing it in the first place in a system, where the rules don't give such opportunnity.

I didn't say anything about the quality of your GMing.
Nor did I say either of these things.
I have been around RPG communities to know "author" is used as a derogatory term, refering to a railroady GM who should never run the game and instead just write a book or is a failed novelist. I'm not stupid, I have seen through your plausible deniability attempt.

Well, there's no need to make many assumptions about me, as I have dozens if not hundreds of actual play posts on these boards, mostly from the perspective of a GM (see eg my current Torchbearer game) but some from the perspective of a player (see eg this Burning Wheel actual play report).
You wrote multiple paragraphs to defend your quality as a DM or player, while completely missing my point that it's freaking rude to make negative assumptions about how someone plays based on few posts on a forum. You are trying to show my potrayal of you was wrong, while refusing to engage with my point that it was wrong for you to make assumptions about me. You are shooting point-blank at the barn and somehow hitting the sheriff two counties over.

Re (a) - there is no reason I know of to think that it will be true. I mean, whose suspension of disbelief is going to be harmed? That players? Why - presumably they enjoy the whole thing given that they are the one who introduced it. The other players? Why - what is it about a player-authored bastion that is going to stretch their credulity more than anything else that might be part of the shared fiction.

And why can't you build your fiction around the player's thing, just as I have built around the Forgotten Temple Complex with an explosives cult?
Quite frankly, after experiences in my current campaign - where I let player build a fringe community their character was from, only for them then to ignore plot hooks related to that community only because other players were interested in other things and that player doesn't like to impose on them and whenever party votes which quest to take next, they default to "I do what rest of the group does" - I would discourage a player from adding something that I cannot easily integrate into the plot so I can more organically integrate it into the game.

I am running on assumption if a player wants to add something to the setting, they want it to come up and factor into the story we're telling. The way Bastion rules are set, I am prevented from doing that. And yes, this breaks suspension of disbelief if a part of the setting is not integrated. Let's say your Forgotten Temple of god of explosions wasn't in a Greyhawk campaign, but on Krynn, where there is a set in stone number of gods and all other gods are the same few under different names? Wouldn't you just say that one of these gods is god of explosion's true form? Or is Matt Mercer a bad DM for the fact that every time a player in Critical Role brings a new diety their character worships, he eventually reveals it's not a true diety, but some different entity or a servant of an actual diety, because his world has a set number of dieties?

Re (b) - what it communicates to me is that the player wants to have their thing. That doesn't show that they don't trust you to do your thing. Unless your thing is deciding everything about the fiction other than what actions the players declare for their PCs. Which goes back to the impression you have given me of your preferred approach to RPGing.
As I have said, it is my responsibility to integrate their thing into the setting and their campaign and I find offloading it on the player to be lazy and against why I'm the GM. If a thing just exists separately and doesn't come up in the story, aside "number go brrr" mechanical bonus, does it REALLY exist in the campaign? Not in my opinion. As far as I see it, that player is screwing themselves over seemingly just because they don't trust me.
 

One could fudge it such that the murder took place after Celesta last left her stronghold, sure. Or - given that this is being driven by a dice roll anyway - one could choose not to fudge and let the dice fall where they may. IMO the latter is the high road, but in situations like this it can lead to other problems.
I don't understand what you are talking about. If you roll the dice, and establish an event that - up until that point - no one has known about, then you don't narrate it in such a way that that ignorance is inconsistent or implausible.

This is not GMing rocket science. I mean, suppose - in a dungeon scenario - I roll up a wandering encounter, and it turns out to be some bugbears. Suppose, further, that the PCs have explored, mapped and secured all the areas of the dungeon that are behind them. In that case, I am not going to narrate the bugbears coming from behind, as that wouldn't make sense. So I narrate them as coming from in front. Even if they get the drop on the party and surprise them, I can still narrate them as coming from in front: as Gygax says (AD&D DMG p 62),

When one side or another is surprised, this general term can represent a number of possible circumstances. In the first place it simply represents actual surprise - that is, the opponent was unprepared for the appearance/attack. The reason for this could be eating, sleeping, waste elimination, attention elsewhere, no weapon ready, etc.​

The solution is to maintain sequentiality. If there's a spy in the stronghold, that needs to be known by the DM up front such that the spy's actions can be any or all of foreshadowed, telegraphed, tracked, discovered, acted upon, etc. without having to retcon anything.
Every time you bring a NPC onto the stage, you "retcon" their birth, their childhood friendships, etc. And this is not an irrelevant point - if the spy goes into exile, these are the people who will shelter them, and the GM has to make them up on the spot.

Given that there is always the need to introduce fiction that pertains to the "past" of the fiction, having a spy introduced "now" who has already been active for some time is fine. To be honest, even a rookie GM can pull that off without much trouble.

Those writers usually have the rather large advantage of knowing in advance how everything turns out in the end
I don't think so - in shows that run for 20+ episodes per season, and for season after season, stuff is being made up all the time, about who knows whom, who has what sort of backstory, and how that all factors into "present" events.

Taking this approach to running an RPG would, I suspect, quickly lead to charges of raliroading; and in this case I'd agree.

Original fiction has a character building a pub with the party's help; the pub is finished on Auril 2 whereupon the party immediately goes off adventuring.

Some time later (6 months in real time, 2 months in game time) the player says "Wait - I meant to hire staff for the pub before we left!" "OK," says I; "that would have added 2 days to the process, meaning you left on the 4th instead."

Trivial change, right?

Well, hang on now. If they left 2 days later that bumps everything they did after that ahead by 2 days, meaning that instead of meeting the King on their return on Auril 23 they now would meet him on the 25th...except he dies on the 24th
Huh? I don't have a strong view on the 2-day change - I don't care that much about time in most of my currently active campaigns - but what is the thing with the King? Why is it dictated in advance when the King dies, and why are the PCs being railroaded into a meeting with him?
 



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