D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Ashrym]

Wouldn't the specific rules on movement speed when dragging a grappled creature (reduced by half without a feat, unless creature is at least two sizes smaller) override the general rules about movement speed (reduced to 5') when dragging in excess of your carry weight?

Both rules apply. Base speed can be no greater than 5' and that 5' can be reduced to half.

 

[Xetheral]

Both rules apply. Base speed can be no greater than 5' and that 5' can be reduced to half.

I disagree that it's possible to apply both, as that would make the specific rules for dragging characters effectively superfluous-- many characters wouldn't be able to drag a similarly sized creature even one square as their speed would be less than the 5' required. Accordingly, I see the rules as in conflict, and, when rules conflict, specific beats general.

 

[Ashrym]

I disagree that it's possible to apply both, as that would make the specific rules for dragging characters effectively superfluous-- many characters wouldn't be able to drag a similarly sized creature even one square as their speed would be less than the 5' required. Accordingly, I see the rules as in conflict, and, when rules conflict, specific beats general.

Those aren't rules in conflict. They're overlapping effects on the PC.

If the PC is physically capable of dealing with the weight then they are not reduced to 5' movement. If they are not then the excessive weight causes them to have a maximum movement of 5'.

That places medium sized characters into the position where from 8-20 STR they can carry 120-300 lbs and they can drag 240-600 lbs. It only takes 8 STR to drag 240 lbs, which seems capable of dragging a similar sized creature even for someone with under avg STR.

While dragging, lifting, or pushing the weight above carrying capacity the PC's movement cannot be more than 5'. If they are dragging within that carrying capacity then the grappled rule applies.

Movable. The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves, but every foot of movement costs it 1 extra foot unless you are Tiny or two or more sizes smaller than it.

Moving a grappled opponent doesn't change anything from the carrying capacity rules. All it does is cost extra movement.

Fast Wrestler. You don't have to spend extra movement to move a creature Grappled by you if the creature is your size or smaller.

The Grappler feat doesn't change anything in the carrying capacity rules. All it does is remove the extra movement cost when moving the grappled opponent. All these rules can be applied at once.

If you make a Goliath the Powerful Build option helps this significantly, and if your party cleric is a Halfling then you're Goliath monk can happily run around carrying the cleric spreading Spirit Guardians love. But there's no rules conflict going on here.

Breaking those limits would require a DM to set a DC Athletics check in a "DM may I?" approach.

 

[Ashrym]

I don't use spells like Sleep or Hold Person in modern era games. It's the whole "roll a save each round" to end it that I don't like. I'd prefer if it had a secondary effect after you successfully save that you then have to save against. (Like your attacks have disadvantage or attacks against you have advantage.)
Without that mechanic or a similar mechanic, there's a good chance that the creature saves on the first round and you get nothing. Or if it saves on the next round, you get very little.
That's why I prefer fireball. To quote Johnny Lawrence: "the best defense is more offense."

Not all status effect spells have repeat saves or multiple saves. Even the ones that do have a portion of the targets fail. Fireball has it's uses, but Hypnotic Pattern would be the spell I went for before it. ;-)

 

[FrogReaver]

Wouldn't the specific rules on movement speed when dragging a grappled creature (reduced by half without a feat, unless creature is at least two sizes smaller) override the general rules about movement speed (reduced to 5') when dragging in excess of your carry weight?

I don’t view either as overriding. Grappled condition movable simply clarifies 2 things: 1 you can drag or carry a grappled creature (just in case any doubt). Doing so costs twice the movement.

Carrying capacity rules set drag/carry speed to 5ft if over the 15x str drag/carry speed.

Both rules work in conjunction.

@Ashrym explained it better than I.

 

[Oofta]

Something to keep in mind when dragging/carrying is the weight of equipment for both of the individuals involved. Other than that I agree with @Ashrym and @FrogReaver

 

[FrogReaver]

Those aren't rules in conflict. They're overlapping effects on the PC.

If the PC is physically capable of dealing with the weight then they are not reduced to 5' movement. If they are not then the excessive weight causes them to have a maximum movement of 5'.

That places medium sized characters into the position where from 8-20 STR they can carry 120-300 lbs and they can drag 240-600 lbs. It only takes 8 STR to drag 240 lbs, which seems capable of dragging a similar sized creature even for someone with under avg STR.

While dragging, lifting, or pushing the weight above carrying capacity the PC's movement cannot be more than 5'. If they are dragging within that carrying capacity then the grappled rule applies.



Moving a grappled opponent doesn't change anything from the carrying capacity rules. All it does is cost extra movement.



The Grappler feat doesn't change anything in the carrying capacity rules. All it does is remove the extra movement cost when moving the grappled opponent. All these rules can be applied at once.

If you make a Goliath the Powerful Build option helps this significantly, and if your party cleric is a Halfling then you're Goliath monk can happily run around carrying the cleric spreading Spirit Guardians love. But there's no rules conflict going on here.

Breaking those limits would require a DM to set a DC Athletics check in a "DM may I?" approach.

One thing that’s not clear to me. Say you are carrying 100lbs of gear. You grapple a creature weighing 100 lbs that has another 100lbs of gear he is carrying.

When it comes to carrying that would count as 300lbs of carrying. When it comes to dragging is it 200lbs for dragging? Do you sum what you are carrying with what’s being dragged? Etc.

 

[Zardnaar]

I’d rate fireball as overall A for 5e. 28 damage on a failed save in a large aoe is great in the level 5-10 range (which is the range you really care about)?

Just because you don’t kill enemies beyond around cr1 with it outright doesnt make it bad. HP damage effects are cumulative and as enemies die faster team enemy has fewer and fewer actions.

I guess the question is, what general use Level 3 wizard aoe spell would you rate higher? Maybe hypnotic pattern?

For AoE hypnotic pattern.

5E adventures don't really do swarms much anyway. If they do it's something like 20 wood blights at level 5.

Spirit Guardians also generally better along with haste.

Few times fireball is actually useful it's not needed or hard to use (unless you're an invoker).

5E bloated hit points generally means an invoker is about a B tier wizard imho. And since you can't twin chromatic orb, dragon breath or ice knife anymore blasting is even worse now.

 

[FrogReaver]

Any party with a L9 (or worse L11) fighter has a significant number of push effects, and a party with a barbarian nearly as many.

But that’s the thing. One 5 or 10ft push doesn’t likely push an enemy back into a damage zone. And even if so it takes at least 2 more push effects to do push them out and back in again on the same round, at least one of which needs to be ranged and usually from the opposite side of the enemy.

Like i said earlier, it really takes a party wide effort to really make damage zones and forces movement into them really painful. Its not something that’s going to come up much outside of that.

 

[FrogReaver]

For AoE hypnotic pattern.

And yet hypnotic pattern can be mostly negated by enemies daisy chaining the next enemy in imitative to end the effect. Lasts 1 turn and enemies still get a good bit of their actions. Its only good because DMs typically dont actually have enemies do that against it.

Spirit Guardians also generally better along with haste.

Spirit guardians is not a wizard spell.

Fewvtimes fireball is actually useful it's not needed

Not sure what this means.

or hard to use (unless you're an invoker).

No harder than hypnotic pattern

5E bloated hit points generally means an invoker is about a B tier wizard imho. And since you can't twin chromatic orb, dragon breath or ice knife anymore blasting is even worse now.

Why did you change to talking wizard class insead of fireball spell. Feels like some major goalpost shifting.