D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Mort]

If you have 10 enemies and hit 6 with hypnotic pattern then as long as the enemy first in initiative is not effected by hypnotic pattern then every enemy gets an action. 6 are used to wake up allies. 4 are used as normal. The spell is now over.

In my years of playing 5e (Since the beginning), I've seen Hypnotic Pattern completely shut down an encounter exactly once. Granted, the one time (when a group of Fire Giants went from deadly encounter to an easy mop up) was pretty great, but still - exactly once.

It's one of those spells that in white room analysis gets called broken but IMO doesn't actually play out that way.

 

[NotAYakk]

There is a 30:1 ratio of "this is OP" to actually saying what the OP thing is in this thread at this point.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I'm not being hyperbolic I'm looking at the numbers and RAW.

Except the numbers aren't broken, for the most part, they are remarkably consistent, much more so than 2014.

Also, OP states we are comparing it to all time. Is 2024 worse than 3E's CoDzilla (or hulking hurlers or initiates of the 7 veils or Pun-Pun or...)? Worse than in 2E's putting a Player Options or Fighters and Priests of the Realms character alongside a base 1989 PHB character? Worse than 1E UA cavalier? Worse than some of the OP combos we argued about with 1e or BX or oD&D (off the top of my head-- no save captures using transmute rock to mud and transmute mud to rock in short succession)? Or heck, just that the game has had overturn-the-whole-apple-cart material like artifacts and wish spells in there since sometime '74-'76. To say nothing of non-D&D TTRPGs with equal or greater optimization gradients.

I mean, if the premise were 'I'm annoyed at how many gimmicky power combos I'm finding in PHB2024, I didn't think they were going to do that,' I think it's 100% valid. But hilariously broken and most OP of all time? No, honestly it is par for the course.

 

[Zardnaar]

In my years of playing 5e (Since the beginning), I've seen Hypnotic Pattern completely shut down an encounter exactly once. Granted, the one time (when a group of Fire Giants went from deadly encounter to an easy mop up) was pretty great, but still - exactly once.

It's one of those spells that in white room analysis gets called broken but IMO doesn't actually play out that way.

I've seen it more than once but we gave fought a few giants. It's brutal on them as they gave crap saves and you tend to encounter them in 1-2 at a time.

Fireballs fairly useless even vs hill gints and ogres. Slow, hunger of radar etc are better imho.

I'm not saying fireballs bad I'm saying it's situational made worse by 5E hit point bloat (it's weaker than 3.5).

 

[Zardnaar]

Also, OP states we are comparing it to all time. Is 2024 worse than 3E's CoDzilla (or hulking hurlers or initiates of the 7 veils or Pun-Pun or...)? Worse than in 2E's putting a Player Options or Fighters and Priests of the Realms character alongside a base 1989 PHB character? Worse than 1E UA cavalier? Worse than some of the OP combos we argued about with 1e or BX or oD&D (off the top of my head-- no save captures using transmute rock to mud and transmute mud to rock in short succession)? Or heck, just that the game has had overturn-the-whole-apple-cart material like artifacts and wish spells in there since sometime '74-'76. To say nothing of non-D&D TTRPGs with equal or greater optimization gradients.

I mean, if the premise were 'I'm annoyed at how many gimmicky power combos I'm finding in PHB2024, I didn't think they were going to do that,' I think it's 100% valid. But hilariously broken and most OP of all time? No, honestly it is par for the course.

I'm comparing to PHB to PHB not phb to all of 3.5. I'm finding way more combos and a lot of 2014 ones are also intact.

Monk 5/ranger 1 with nick, tavern brawler, 18 dex 14 strength. Daggers, hunters mark.

1d8+1d4+1d6+6 damage one focus point 5 attacks.

Moon Druid 4 grappler spike growth wild shape into bear.

Grappler or forced movement into emanating of your choice.

 

[Azzy]

Nothing compares to the 3.5e PHB. Not even Sinéad.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nothing compares to the 3.5e PHB. Not even Sinéad.

At levels people actually play at?

You have the Druid at 6 what else?

I'm not talking about hypothetical level 20 builds or even 13 (5E has those as well btw).

What's the worst thing you can do? Can a 3.5 Druid put out my Monk5/1 damage I listed above?

3.5 Druid is just one thing. It was fairly obvious in 3.5 if you experienced natural spell in 3.0.

 

[Mort]

I'm comparing to PHB to PHB not phb to all of 3.5. I'm finding way more combos and a lot of 2014 ones are also intact.

Monk 5/ranger 1 with nick, tavern brawler, 18 dex 14 strength. Daggers, hunters mark.

1d8+1d4+1d6+6 damage one focus point 5 attacks.

Moon Druid 4 grappler spike growth wild shape into bear.

Grappler or forced movement into emanating of your choice.

Frankly, the fact that monks and (non gloomstalker) rangers are suddenly being called effective makes me pretty happy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Frankly, the fact that monks and (non gloomstalker) rangers are suddenly being called effective makes me pretty happy.

There's various ways to buff Monks. They may have gone to far.

 

[Mort]

There's various ways to buff Monks. They may have gone to far.

It's WAY too early to tell. But from what I've seen so far, they look to be effective without being ridiculous - pretty much where you want them to be.