D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[Minigiant]

Hail of thorns has a miss effect also but I do not see as better for a single target upcast than Lighting Arrow. I will admit that situationally with multiple targets Lightening Arrow may be better.
Do not think it move the graph much.

I don't think you're getting it.

You can only cast hail of thorns when you hit when an attack.

You can cast lightning Arrow anytime you hit or miss with an attack.

Lightning arrow is Graze with Lightning on a Bow.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't think you're getting it.

You can only cast hail of thorns when you hit when an attack.

You can cast lightning Arrow anytime you hit or miss with an attack.

Lightning arrow is Graze with Lightning on a Bow.

So, half damage on a miss at level 9 +

4d8/2*0.4 DPR or there abouts, plus 3.6, not nothing but not enough to move the line better than other martials.
You can do it twice per day when you get it. 7.2 spread out over 16 rounds of combat (as per Treantmonk's assumptions) not really going to move the line much.

 

[mellored]

I don't think you're getting it.

You can only cast hail of thorns when you hit when an attack.

You can cast lightning Arrow anytime you hit or miss with an attack.

Lightning arrow is Graze with Lightning on a Bow.

You lose 2d8 damage when you use it on a miss. Still might be worth while if the enemy is nearly dead, or surrounded. But I would save it for hits most of the time.

wow, a 3rd level slot for what?
13-14 damage?

15.75
Assuming save 50% of the time.

Also. It scales by 1d8 for both effects. So +2d8, which is pretty strong scaling especially as a bonus action spell.

But that still makes you want to go ranger 9/ war cleric.

 

[Minigiant]

So, half damage on a miss at level 9 +

4d8/2*0.4 DPR or there abouts, plus 3.6, not nothing but not enough to move the line better than other martials.
You can do it twice per day when you get it. 7.2 spread out over 16 rounds of combat (as per Treantmonk's assumptions) not really going to move the line much.

Sometimes they will fail.

It's comes out to be ~+1 DPR per casting.

You lose 2d8 damage when you use it on a miss. Still might be worth while if the enemy is nearly dead, or surrounded. But I would save it for hits most of the time

It's 3d10 vs 2d8.

TM assumed Rangers have 75% accuracy, so you are better off casting LA one of the 2 times you miss.

 

[mellored]

It's 3d10 vs 4d8.

TM assumed Rangers have 75% accuracy, so you are better off casting LA one of the 2 times you miss.

Or just cast it when you hit. Which you will do on most rounds. Certainly more time than you have slots for.

Then it's 4d8+(2d8*.75) = 24.75
Vs
3d10* .75 = 12.375

So double. Treantmonk slept on lightning arrow.

 

[Minigiant]

Or just cast it when you hit. Which you will do on most rounds. Certainly more time than you have slots for.

Then it's 4d8+(2d8*.75) = 24.75
Vs
3d10* .75 = 12.375

So double. Treantmonk slept on lightning arrow.

Yeah he was kind of unfavorable with how slot usage.

He let Paladins use second third fourth and fifth level slots.

Whereas the Ranger only used two second level slots and two first double slots.

I suspect 2014 all over again where everyone theorycrafts ranger as bad, archer rangers surprise in play, , rangers gets a stronger subclass due to zeitgeist of ranger being bad, and RangerX/classY becomes an OP build.

 

[mellored]

Yeah he was kind of unfavorable with how slot usage.

He let Paladins use second third fourth and fifth level slots.

Whereas the Ranger only used two second level slots and two first double slots.

Not to mention the slotless Hunter's Mark, slotless THP, and slotless invisibility.
He should be counting advantage for 10 turns at 14.

Also, Dex and going first is worth a fair bit too.

 

[Mistwell]

Or just cast it when you hit. Which you will do on most rounds. Certainly more time than you have slots for.

Then it's 4d8+(2d8*.75) = 24.75
Vs
3d10* .75 = 12.375

So double. Treantmonk slept on lightning arrow.

So tell him. Comment on his video.

 

[Zardnaar]

New video up haven't watched it yet.

 

[Chaosmancer]

After watching this video, it seems like Rangers are definitely not doing much single target damage. The question is, do their other abilities make up for it? I play spellcasters and I don't have any expectation of doing a ton of single target damage ... but I make up for it. Where do Rangers sit here? And I don't know is the answer to that question from me. I suppose we'll have to see some more analysis on the class to figure that out.

Agreed. While Rangers don't have the same AOE and Battlefield control as a full-spellcaster, it is better than literally every martial who is doing better single target damage than them. They are also a class with higher than average mobility, D10 HD and Tireless, and Expertise in skills.

Rangers seem to be a 5th man. Never the best at any given metric, but good in all of the metrics.