D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[ECMO3]

I called builds more lower lever and was wondering how you inflicted fear

In 2014 rules Cause Fear through Shadow Touched Feat. In 2024 I am going to try Wrathful Smite through Shadow Touched.

On paper 2024 Wrathful Smite seems better - not concentration and don't have to give up an attack to use it.

However, you do have to get in melee to use WS and typically frightened works better if you inflict it at Range. Also Cause Fear upcasts really well. So I am not convinced WS will actually work better, but I am going to try it.

I'm not sold on builds requiring specific magic items for example. Way to DM dependent.
How does your build work without those items?

It doesn't. I was comparing it to you saying you would want a good magic Bow. If I am looking for specific magic items it isn't a weapon is my point.

It works fine without that. Usually I do not have one of them (and I have never had a Mace of Terror). But if you are in a campaign where you can buy or build magic items, or your DM drops what you want ..... then those are what I am looking for.

 

[Zardnaar]

In 2014 rules Cause Fear through Shadow Touched Feat. In 2024 I am going to try Wrathful Smite through Shadow Touched.

On paper 2024 Wrathful Smite seems better - not concentration and don't have to give up an attack to use it.

However, you do have to get in melee to use WS and typically frightened works better if you inflict it at Range. Also Cause Fear upcasts really well. So I am not convinced WS will actually work better, but I am going to try it.



It doesn't. I was comparing it to you saying you would want a good magic Bow. If I am looking for specific magic items it isn't a weapon is my point.



It works fine. Ususally I do not have one of them (and I have never had a Mace of Terror). But if you are in a campaign where you can buy or build magic items, or your DM drops what you want ..... then those are what I am looking for.

Your build got buried and I couldn't remember everything on it.

Rangers benefit a lot from grid etc. Due to the various arrow spells and horde breaker.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'd argue otherwise. My table is slightly optimized and my bard-barian wouldn't be able to keep up with them if I didn't munchkin the living hell out of it. Optimizing allowed me to make a mechanically weak multiclass into something that didn't drag the party down. I'm not concerned with boosting my DPR by 1.8, but I do want to be effective in my given role.

You didn’t present an argument for otherwise. You presented 1 personal anecdote.

 

[Mistwell]

If I get a chance to calculate more I will.

Though I don't know how much he looks at older videos. I'm not a patron.

I think he does. Particularly when he revisits the concept later.

 

[Redwizard007]

You didn’t present an argument for otherwise. You presented 1 personal anecdote.

If you can point me to D&D beyond's raw data I'll do more. Until then, you have to deal with anecdotes. I could give you a dozen more if that would help.

 

[FrogReaver]

If you can point me to D&D beyond's raw data I'll do more.

Its not clear to me how d&d beyond raw data would shine light on what people mean by optimize, which is the point you challenged from my post. Can you elaborate there?

Until then, you have to deal with anecdotes. I could give you a dozen more if that would help.

It might, but you are leaving out some significant details, so unless those are added, probably not.

 

[Zardnaar]

Did a quick blat today level 7 Fey Wanderer. Used the Silver Marches book to basically do ranger things up northern Faerun.

Kept track of damage got around 40 damage a round on the tougher critters.

Had a +1 shorts sword then acquired +1 scimitar. Would probably have a slightly better weapon if played from level 1 or 3.

 

[mellored]

Level 9, 16 Wis
4d8
2d8*.5
2d8*.5*.5
= 24.75
Vs
3d10*.5*.5
3d10*.5
= 12.375

Exactly double the damage.
12.375 / 16 = 0.7734375 more DPR for each level 3 slot.

Level 5, 20 Wis
6d8
4d8*.6
4d8*.5*.4
= 41.4
Vs
5d10*.6
5d10*.5*.4
= 22

Diff 19.4 / 16 = 1.2125 more DPR per 5th level slot. Rough it out to about +1 DPR * 4 slots above level 3
about +4 DPR at level 20.
Or 11% improvement.

~40 DPR vs the paladin ~60


What they are really missing is a damage boost at 11 or similar. Ranger get subclass at 11 that just doesn't compete.

+Wis once per turn would help a lot.

 

[FrogReaver]

Level 9, 16 Wis
4d8
2d8*.5
2d8*.5*.5
= 24.75
Vs
3d10*.5*.5
3d10*.5
= 12.375

Exactly double the damage.
12.375 / 16 = 0.7734375 more DPR for each level 3 slot.

Level 5, 20 Wis
6d8
4d8*.6
4d8*.5*.4
= 41.4
Vs
5d10*.6
5d10*.5*.4
= 22

Diff 19.4 / 16 = 1.2125 more DPR per 5th level slot. Rough it out to about +1 DPR * 4 slots above level 3
about +4 DPR at level 20.
Or 11% improvement.

~40 DPR vs the paladin ~60


What they are really missing is a damage boost at 11 or similar. Ranger get subclass at 11 that just doesn't compete.

+Wis once per turn would help a lot.

Not following your calculations

 

[FrogReaver]

Did a quick blat today level 7 Fey Wanderer. Used the Silver Marches book to basically do ranger things up northern Faerun.

Kept track of damage got around 40 damage a round on the tougher critters.

Had a +1 shorts sword then acquired +1 scimitar. Would probably have a slightly better weapon if played from level 1 or 3.

Sounds reasonable provided the creature is already hunter's marked before you start meleeing it with your sword and scimitar. It's just ranger's lose so much damage when they need to reapply hunters mark, vex, etc.