D&D (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

[TiQuinn]

I could even see an x.p. penalty instead of an outright blocking of powers.

Thanks, I hate it!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

It's funny, hardline DMs want players beholden and answering to those almighty figures able to punish both in-narrative and the mechanics and those power figures are all played by...said DM! No ways the player has any say in this, that would be toxic bullying!

Surprise, surprise.

 

[Emerikol]

One which I’m sure everyone aspires to, I would hope.



I think it’s just as easy to bend the story in the DMs head to the rules as it is to bend the rules to the DMs story. A shift in the character’s allegiance does not need to come with mechanical penalties.

I think given D&D's history this is not true for clerics or paladins. Part of playing that class and it's not a secret is adhering to some code or being faithful to a deity. Like anything, the first action by the deity doesn't have to be a total power ban but the idea that clerics and paladins are answerable to their deity is a long standing D&D trope. So I would oppose that changing. I think the default should be a simple pantheon with some guidance. Then provide a paragraph explaining a bunch of ways you can change it. I think some of the suggestions were interesting. I like to change it up occasionally.

 

[abirdcall]

It's funny, hardline DMs want players beholden and answering to those almighty figures able to punish both in-narrative and the mechanics and those power figures are all played by...said DM! No ways the player has any say in this, that would be toxic bullying!

Surprise, surprise.

If that is the way the DM is they're going to be that way regardless of what classes are in play.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

If that is the way the DM is they're going to be that way regardless of what classes are in play.

Yup.

It's just an mechanical justification to their power trip.

"Plays YOUR character in a manners that fits MY preferences".

 

[TiQuinn]

I think given D&D's history this is not true for clerics or paladins. Part of playing that class and it's not a secret is adhering to some code or being faithful to a deity. Like anything, the first action by the deity doesn't have to be a total power ban but the idea that clerics and paladins are answerable to their deity is a long standing D&D trope. So I would oppose that changing. I think the default should be a simple pantheon with some guidance. Then provide a paragraph explaining a bunch of ways you can change it. I think some of the suggestions were interesting. I like to change it up occasionally.

It’s definitely a part of D&D history, but it’s also one of the sacred cows that I believe needs to go to the slaughterhouse, and replaced with a better idea. Obviously the simplest is just do away with the concept altogether. The next simplest is ask the player what god or oath they feel they best embody and let them switch to that, without penalty.

 

[Emerikol]

It's funny, hardline DMs want players beholden and answering to those almighty figures able to punish both in-narrative and the mechanics and those power figures are all played by...said DM! No ways the player has any say in this, that would be toxic bullying!

Surprise, surprise.

And petulant players who want to ignore the setting entirely and just do whatever they want without consequence are toxic crybabies and the ruination of many games. Just go.

 

[Emerikol]

It’s definitely a part of D&D history, but it’s also one of the sacred cows that I believe needs to go to the slaughterhouse, and replaced with a better idea. Obviously the simplest is just do away with the concept altogether. The next simplest is ask the player what god or oath they feel they best embody and let them switch to that, without penalty.

That would be a world that lacked any sort of verisimilitude for me. It's not that it cannot be done but there needs to be some costs in the transition. I think the stripping out of everything bad that could possibly happen has lessened our game greatly.

 

[Emerikol]

As for those who are complaining about the DM screwing with them. If a DM wants to mess with a player, a rule on clerics is not going to save the situation. Just leave that game. But don't misinterpret good DMing that adheres to a world and reflects the game as the DM messing with you.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think given D&D's history this is not true for clerics or paladins. Part of playing that class and it's not a secret is adhering to some code or being faithful to a deity. Like anything, the first action by the deity doesn't have to be a total power ban but the idea that clerics and paladins are answerable to their deity is a long standing D&D trope. So I would oppose that changing. I think the default should be a simple pantheon with some guidance. Then provide a paragraph explaining a bunch of ways you can change it. I think some of the suggestions were interesting. I like to change it up occasionally.

I think given D&D's history we've found that the "losing your powers" doesn't work and leads to negative play experiences. It's why Paladins were such a mocked class through to the end of 3.5 - and deserves to stay on the "things we used to do" list with Descending AC and XP for GP.