D&D (2024) How do I disarm traps? Does Thieves' Tools do anything?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Adding to the previous post, I would always allow narrative disarming without a roll and only roll if its a "general disarm" without specification. But if a player states that they use something viable to e.g. wedge a trap door or pressure plate or something that make sense and is easy to do - no roll. You should be able to do that without being an expert in trap disarming.

One of the issues of Knock magazine had a good guideline, involving tools, skills and lots of time.

• If you have all three of those, no roll is needed, barring exceptional circumstances (unlocking a treasure chest belong to a demon lord or something). You know how to do this, you have the means to do the thing and the time required to do so.
• If you have only two of those, you need to roll. Maybe you're under a time crunch (the guards are coming!), your tools were taken from you and you have to improvise with the bard's hairpin or maybe your party is asking you to do a skill challenge that you're just not qualified to do (the door unlocks if you play the right song on the pipe organ -- which you don't know how to play).
• If you have none of those, no roll is possible. The task is impossible for you.
• For 5E, I would add one more category: If you just have one of those, you can roll with disadvantage. You know how to pick locks, but you don't have the right tools and you're in a hurry -- but you might as well try.

This is not exactly how it works under 2024 D&D, so discuss with your players beforehand. It means less rolling overall when it should just be an instant success or instant failure. If you're like me and think that rolling on things that you should just be able to do is boring and punitive, this is a good alternative, I think.

Doing it this way also allows you to benefit from the help action with a second qualified person helping with advice or shining a light in the right spot, etc. I like encouraging the help action personally, so this is a plus in my book.

 

[Ashrym]

I'm still a bit confused with the new rules. I do not understand granting advantage in the new rules?

From the 2024 PHB...

Equipment Proficiencies​

A character gains proficiency with various weapons and tools from their class and background. There are two categories of equipment proficiency:

Weapons. Anyone can wield a weapon, but proficiency makes you better at wielding it. If you have proficiency with a weapon, you add your Proficiency Bonus to attack rolls you make with it.

Tools. If you have proficiency with a tool, you can add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have Proficiency in the skill that’s also used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too. This means you can benefit from both skill proficiency and tool proficiency on the same ability check.

Any time a tool and skill both use proficiency for the action it grants advantage.

Wouldn't you need the tools to be able to open the lock or disarm the trap in first place.

Yes, you need to have a tool for certain tasks unless the DM determines otherwise. For example, a PC who has proficiency in Thieves' Tools and not Sleight of Hand might make a check at Disadvantage using suitable similar items at the DM's discretion but the same DM might not let you use Tinkers' Tools to make a map.

Or, are they saying that you can use your dagger and a hairpin to open a lock if you have sleight of hand only and having the tool just makes it so it is near impossible to fail?

I think you don't have to have proficiency in Thieves' Tools to use them if you have proficiency in Sleight of Hand. Either works. But you should still use Thieves' Tools either way.

I guess I could did a hole in the ground with my hands, but if I have a shovel I cannot fail- seems a bit much. It makes more sense to say you have disadvantage if you do not have the proper tool.

I would probably assess that through the damage threshold of whatever the PC might be digging. Digging through soil is easier than digging through clay is not going to dig through granite barehanded.

I'm not sure I'd bother with a check depending on the circumstances.

Maybe it is more a game mechanic to pass forward and not fail to open a door. Same with no penalty for failing and you just try again next round?

Often we don't need to make checks. The checks usually only matter if there's a cost to failed rolls or if it needs done fast.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

but the same DM might not let you use Tinkers' Tools to make a map.

I embroider it on a piece of fabric.

 

[Ashrym]

Now I'm wondering why a thief would take expertise on sleight of hands for opening locks? I'm seeing that by 5th level you get +3 proficiency, +4 Dex, and advantage (+5) because of tools.

For disarming traps and picking pockets and cheating while gambling. There's plenty of ways of dealing with locks outside of picking them.

Artificers still get Tool Expertise with Thieves' Tools and Bards get a half proficiency bonus with Sleight of Hand even when they don't pick up the skill proficiency. These interact with those rules too.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Now I'm wondering why a thief would take expertise on sleight of hands for opening locks?

Sleight of Hand is how one picks pockets, palms valuables and more. It's a quintessential rogue skill.

 

[pukunui]

Sleight of Hand is how one picks pockets, palms valuables and more. It's a quintessential rogue skill.

Except that the 2024 rules provide no guidance on how to adjudicate those things. Previously it would've been a Sleight of Hand vs Perception contest, but they've done away with contests for the most part, so ...

 

[Clint_L]

As above, thief-rogues get a flat 15. Non-thief-rogues just have to deal with other DCs. With the Advent of Bounded Accuracy (tm) 15 is fine for a rogue of up to 20 levels, and let's be real, the game is about combat, anyway, so who cares?

Wow...I assume you are being facetious, because this is an obviously terrible idea.

By tenth level, It is impossible for a rogue to fail a DC 15 thieve's tools check. So...why even bother with having traps that involve them? As a DM, it's a waste of time in the story if the only result is "you succeed." Given that I put time and effort into traps that are fun puzzles and challenges for players to solve, and risk is an inherent and fun part of the game, I adjust the challenge of DC according to the ability of the party.

Otherwise, we might as well just keep pitting them against kobolds all the way to 20th level.

 

[Remathilis]

In the Tools section, the PHB says that you can disarm a trap using Thieves' Tools with a DC 15 Dexterity check.

Contradicting (?) itself, the PHB also says that a Thief Rogue can, as a bonus action, disarm a trap with a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check using Thieves' Tools. *

Contradicting (?) the PHB, the DMG simply does not mention Thieves' Tools in the Traps section at all. Neither as a general rule (for comparison, the 2014 DMG said you might call for "a Dexterity check using thieves' tools to perform the necessary sabotage"), nor in any of the sample traps. One sample trap can be disarmed with a DC 15 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, no tools mentioned. And all the rest are handled narratively once detected, e.g. cut the trip wire (explicitly no ability check required), deface the glyph, or wedge a spike under the pressure plate.

So what's the RAW here? What's the RAI, even?

Are we supposed to handle disarming traps narratively? If yes, WHY does it say that you can roll Thieves' Tools to disarm traps? Are we supposed to roll Thieves' Tools? Then WHY doesn't it mention them in the DMG at all? Are we supposed to do both, or either, or DM's choice? Then WHY doesn't it specify that?

* Important note: the entire Tools section in the PHB lists abilities, not skills, but elsewhere skills ARE specified. E.g. it says that picking locks is a Dexterity check using Thieves' Tools, but if you go to "Lock" in the glossary, it says it's a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check with Thieves' Tools. Musical Instruments is listed as a Charisma check, but I mean, it's a Performance check. So it's possible they meant that using Thieves' Tools is always a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, and just neglected to write it down anywhere. (sigh)

This is how I've interpreted it. I've read the sections but not studied them.

You can disable a lock or trap with a Dexterity check if you are proficient in either thief tools or slight of hand. If you are proficient in both, you have advantage. If you are proficient in neither, the DM can determine if it can still be done untrained.

It's also possible to disable traps without a roll by using magic or items to jam the mechanism. It appears they are moving from the idea of a dedicated trap finder to allow more characters to deal with them.

But I'm with you on the fact they do a terrible job explaining skills in the PHB and DMG, and the rules are all over the place (ability checks, equipment, doors, traps) in a way that isn't intuitive. For all the work they did in making the game more accessible, skills is one area they really dropped the ball.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Except that the 2024 rules provide no guidance on how to adjudicate those things. Previously it would've been a Sleight of Hand vs Perception contest, but they've done away with contests for the most part, so ...

I think everyone's going to settle on it being Sleight vs. Perception again and that we'll have a Sage Advice on that sooner rather than later.

I mean, yes, there will be groups that just short-circuit if a rule isn't spelled out in the book, but I don't think we should assume that's how most groups will suddenly start operating.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think everyone's going to settle on it being Sleight vs. Perception again and that we'll have a Sage Advice on that sooner rather than later.

I mean, yes, there will be groups that just short-circuit if a rule isn't spelled out in the book, but I don't think we should assume that's how most groups will suddenly start operating.

So sure, I can figure it out. I can also refer to the old books. Hell, if need to be I can write my own game from scratch!
But not everyone is a long time veteran and to some people this book will be their first exposure to RPGs. And my controversial opinion is that if people pay money for RPG books, those books should actually come with the rules for playing the game!