D&D General The purpose of deity stats in D&D.

[dave2008]

I disagree, too me they're just another greater god who managed to make a play for dominance and succeed. Their faith has expanded beyond cultural borders but they're still "only" on the same level as a greater god heading a pantheon.

It could be played that way. I have Yawheh and Ao as two of the eight overgods in my setting. Though both elder gods and overgods are more powerful than greater gods. Also, to be clear, overgods are not the most powerful immortals in my setting.

 

[Voadam]

Gary did mention in his Q&A thread that he felt "As a Christian, playing with actual religion is quite beyond the pale."

And:

"The short answer is that as a Christian I have stayed away from Judeo-Christian theology. Thus the use of Theophysical in Hindu spirit entities." When talking about planetars and solars and devas as angelic-like beings for D&D.

And:

"As a Christian I stayed well away from basing any of the D&D game on scripture.

The Deva, Solarm and Planatar are benign and rather angelic in their purposes.

No Milton, but I did use a bit of Dante's Inferno is developing the denizens of the Nine Hells."

 

[EthanSental]

From my middle school days and reading way to many Thor comics, I enjoyed seeing Thor statted up cause I then went searching for Hercules to see who would win like in the comics simplistic and childlike to say the least at that time in my childhood. I did the same with marvel rpg and Thor and Herc and hulk back then, along with Zeus vs Odin in both RPGs.

 

[Vaalingrade]

'Actual religion'

Sounds like he'd be bolding mythology.

 

[Steampunkette]

IIRC, Jim Ward discussed this some on his post on this site about Deities and Demigods. I believe, again IIRC, there was discussion about including Abrahamic mythology. Can't remember the reasoning why it was excluded, but you probably have it mostly correct.

Which is important, too, but I was referring to Gods, Demi-Gods, and Heroes (1976)

Gary did mention in his Q&A thread that he felt "As a Christian, playing with actual religion is quite beyond the pale."

And:

"The short answer is that as a Christian I have stayed away from Judeo-Christian theology. Thus the use of Theophysical in Hindu spirit entities." When talking about planetars and solars and devas as angelic-like beings for D&D.

And:

"As a Christian I stayed well away from basing any of the D&D game on scripture.

The Deva, Solarm and Planatar are benign and rather angelic in their purposes.

No Milton, but I did use a bit of Dante's Inferno is developing the denizens of the Nine Hells."

Woofta. Yup. So it was an actual decision to treat Christianity as "Actual Religion" and Hinduism and other cultures with active modern worship as "Mythology".

That's actually -really- disheartening. Because it shows he knew what he was doing was wrong, and he did it anyway.

'Actual religion'

Sounds like he'd be bolding mythology.

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyup.

Conscious diminishing of religious beliefs he didn't share.

 

[AnotherGuy]

It could be played that way. I have Yawheh and Ao as two of the eight overgods in my setting. Though both elder gods and overgods are more powerful than greater gods. Also, to be clear, overgods are not the most powerful immortals in my setting.

What is more powerful than an overgod in your setting?

 

[Steampunkette]

What is more powerful than an overgod in your setting?

The DM.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I disagree, too me they're just another greater god who managed to make a play for dominance and succeed. Their faith has expanded beyond cultural borders but they're still "only" on the same level as a greater god heading a pantheon.

Doesn't make logical sense to me - in RPG design terms that is.

Religions (in D&D terms 'Pantheons') need to have a degree of parity or some reason why they wouldn't get bullied and conquered by rival Pantheons. That's another good reason why all the Pantheons are relatively equal.

This plays out far more in the pages of Marvel comics than D&D since the game presents a status quo rather than an ongoing narrative (adventures aside). In one such Marvel story (approx. Thor issues 391-400 ) the god Set takes control of the Egyptian Pantheon and tries to conquer Asgard, one of Set's trump cards being that he has imprisoned Bes the God of Luck to influence battles, so the Asgardians are effectively 'rolling with Disadvantage all the time' we might say.

Therefore a Monotheistic god that was beholden to no other gods MUST be powerful enough to at least put up a fight against an entire Pantheon of Gods, otherwise it will be easily conquered/defeated/overthrown and its worshipers absorbed or scattered by the victorious Pantheon.

Now it might have been the case that the Canaanite Pantheon WAS on par with others; but Yahweh absorbed the Divine essence of the other main gods (relegating them to Saints/Angels/Demigods etc. ). But either way that influx of power would have increased Yahweh's Divine Rank.

I don't think a Monotheistic God would be powerful enough to one-shot the likes of Thor or Zeus through sheer force. So we know the power differential is maybe 2 'steps' better than Greater God (in the Demi - Lesser - Intermediate - Greater chain) . That seems enough to give any Pantheon of attackers pause because Yahweh would likely slay a bunch of Greater Gods before being taken out. Large numbers of Demigods or Lesser Gods won't be a threat, so really the pressure will be on the Intermediate and Greater deities. Throw in Divine Realm defenses and Home plane advantages and having a Monotheistic god 2 divine steps' beyond Zeus seems a very good fit.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I always thought it was too bad that D&D did not have any saints or Christianity and Islam in something like the Arthurian Knights mythos part of Deities and Demigods where saracen knights and such were specifically mentioned. D&D already had plenty of Judeo Christian things in it from clerical crusader knight models to paladins to crosses affecting vampires to clerical spells derived from the Bible to the whole Dante's Inferno cast for devils.

I had to wait for 3e and the OGL to get a D&D book with angels who were rings of fire with multiple eyes and such.

In AD&D terms the saints would have been named Planetars and Solars. Solars were incredibly powerful in 1st Edition. Easily on par with ANY Demon Prince or Archduke.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Now it might have been the case that the Canaanite Pantheon WAS on par with others; but Yahweh absorbed the Divine essence of the other main gods (relegating them to Saints/Angels/Demigods etc. ). But either way that influx of power would have increased Yahweh's Divine Rank.

I played in a long campaign where this was part of the central premise. There was this one Christian-flavoured monotheistic god, and it turned out it had become such by eating the other gods, absorbing their power and erasing their names. Eventually we managed to free these other gods and defeat this deity. Oh, and the characters became gods as well in the end. So the world went form polytheism to monotheism and back to polytheism.