D&D General “‘Scantily Clad and Well Proportioned’: Sexism and Gender Stereotyping in the Gaming Worlds of TSR and Dungeons & Dragons.”

[mamba]

When men are being accused of sexism because they make art featuring scantily clad and well proportioned women or because they are buying such material

did she buy the book for the cover, or for the story?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

(Also another one which I really hate is stiletto heels I see given to so many women in fantasy).

You take one step off a smooth hard floor and you're sinking straight into the ground. And god forbid there is a cobblestone road...

 

[Autumnal]

I once read the first chapter of an adventure novel aimed at men where the heroine ran through sewers and climbed a ladder. In stilettos. I did make it to the second chapter.

 

[Bagpuss]

Furthermore, people can like and buy things that contain something not-so-great! That's a real thing that actually happens! And even further, consider things like Barbie dolls. They portray an outright impossible beauty standard, and help reinforce sexist stereotypes. There are also plenty of children who played with such dolls despite not having a sexist bone in their body. It's almost like the issue isn't one of "do people buy X" but rather "why is it 99.9% of our options are X and X alone?"

Because X sells, and the market reflects what people buy.

People like idealised fantasies, which might well be impossible beauty standards.

 

[Steampunkette]

I would like to know how you would tell the difference?

If you look at images of sexualised images of men aimed at women (such as the covers of romance novels, or Magic Mike/Chippendales, they are frequently very similar if not identical to what gets classed as power fantasies, for men. Similarly female models women in magazines aimed at women are frequently athletic and showing more skin than they would in everyday situations.

Both men and women like sexy, athletic attractive people and art has always depicted that, although tastes may change over the centuries, sometimes pale skin is attractive, other times a tan, sometimes a fuller figure, etc.

Because X sells, and the market reflects what people buy.

People like idealised fantasies, which might well be impossible beauty standards.

That isn't true, though.

Otherwise people wouldn't go INSANE for Tom Hiddleston, the Beatles, or Bendyback Cucumberpants.

And they ABSOLUTELY DO. Robert Pattinson is another great example of a slender, nonthreatening, physique being broadly lusted over.

Soft tones, soft, even rumpled clothing, soft lines. He's not some sculpted muscle-mass and we all know how massive numbers of women lost our collective minds over him and those movies.
And the Books. Obviously the books, too.

did she buy the book for the cover, or for the story?

That's also a pretty good point. Old Harlequin Romance novels having Fabio shirtless on them worked to draw in purchasers because it was a clear sign of it being a romance novel.

Though with AOOO... y'know... Not everyone's -buying- their spicy romance.

But also: Those books were being sold to women by Men. With what Men assumed they wanted. Nowadays they're often way less "Bare Chested Muscleman" and more "Smoldering eyes" but the book sales haven't dipped.

 

[Gradine]

But you’re missing the point of the argument.

The point is to deflect from the actual issue and endlessly nit pick specific examples until you finally give up in exhaustion.

If this example doesn’t achieve that goal, we only have to wait until another example is used and then the cycle stats again.

 

[Gradine]

That isn't true, though.

And they ABSOLUTELY DO. Robert Pattinson is another great example of a slender, nonthreatening, physique being broadly lusted over.

 

[Steampunkette]

For your consideration: The cover of the bestselling Romance Novel of all time:

Yes, the work is a swooning and deeply vanilla woman's idea of what BDSM must be like... But it resonated -massively- with deeply vanilla women who didn't know what BDSM is like.

And the memes and jokes that flooded out about the horniness of women reading a book with nothing but a desaturated tie on a blue-black background remain legendary. A romance novel they could read in public without -anyone- knowing it was a romance novel (at least until the cultural knowledge started sliding around more broadly)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Because X sells, and the market reflects what people buy.

But it doesn't reflect what people necessarily want. That's the whole point of what I said.

"The market" has supported all sorts of horrible things in times past. Birth of a Nation was a massive commercial success as a film, was even shown in the White House. That does not justify horrible, blatant racism in modern works today.

People like idealised fantasies, which might well be impossible beauty standards.

Who gets to define what ideals are used?

 

[MGibster]

(This topic also annoys me as my browser tells me I'm spelling 'armour' wrong every time I type it.)

Here in the United States, Armour makes hot dogs