D&D (2024) Check Out The New Monster Manual’s Ancient Gold Dragon

Wizards of the Coast has previewed (part of) the stat block for one of its iconic monsters on social media. Take a look!

 

[Upper_Krust]

I agree and disagree. I think potentially killing 1/4 characters is good for a High Damage creature.

Yes but if one of the PCs cannot die each round the fight is a complete formality and over before it begins.

I'm not sure if this actually does that though; there are lots of resistances and temporary hit point pools at high levels, so you need to hit significantly harder then you think you do to actually make the party think someone will go down.

Agreed.

I do think the damage should have been boosted by about 50% here.

If I was designing the basics, off the top of my head:

ACTIONS
2 x Claw: 52 (12d6 +10) slashing, maximum damage (changed to bludgeoning) vs. a Prone Target
Bite: 88 (12d12 +10) slashing, plus thrown or grabbed. Bit adds +27 (6d8) fire damage the round after it has used its fire breath.

or

Fire Breath: 145 (30d8) fire; save for half; failure adds the burning condition

REACTIONS (Reacting to a Specific PC's turn)
Spell: Chooses one of its spells (Guiding Bolt lets say): 24 (7d6) radiant, plus Blinded until end of next turn
Sulfurous Snort: 21 (6d6) poison (fireball size area), save for half or also poisoned (weakened) save ends. Poison cloud lingers until end of the dragon's next turn.
Tail Sweep: 37 (6d8 +10) bludgeoning (30' cone), plus DEX save or knocked prone
Wing Buffet: 25 (6d4+10) bludgeoning, plus CON save or Blinded condition (save ends)

Edit: I fixed the claw damage, should be d6's, not d4's.

 

[Horwath]

No it doesn’t, how could it?

Innate sorcery+elven accuracy+CME(9th level) precasted(lasts long enough)+scorching ray(8th level) with elemental metamagic.

 

[Weiley31]

One could always swap out the 2024 breath weapon damage and swap in the 2014 version.

 

[dave2008]

Yes. Exactly. But even if not that tight, the force is distributed over all nails. So every nail has a harder time to pierce your skin.
If I have to chose, I want to fall on many nails/spears, not a singular one.

There are so many variables in that thought that I would never make a blanket statement like that. Or example, you originally said "needles." Needles can be very thin and pierce you under minimal pressure. One needle, not a big deal (possibly). A thousand that can still pierce you - that is going to leave a mark! Now is a thousand enough to distribute my weight (230 lbs) and not pierce me? Possibly, but also possibly not. Factors like how I step (or fall as you said - which is far worse) on them, thickness of the needle, and spacing of the needles all have an impact on whether or not they pierce my foot.

In a pit full of spears, there are more than one to increase the chance one or two hit you. Putting in too many has a negative effect on the efficiency.

Which for most people is counterintuitive (even if they know about how physics work). It is just one's brain that intuitively says: if one needle is dangerous, 1000s are more dangerous.

I guess in the circles I run it is not counterintuitive. What through me off was that this argument, a thousand nails is not as dangerous as one, is almost exactly what I have been saying and you were arguing against! One powerful rend is more dangerous than several weak ones. So why are you arguing against the rend doing more damage?

 

[dave2008]

One could always swap out the 2024 breath weapon damage and swap in the 2014 version.

I was wrong the 2014 gold had the same breath damage. It was the red that had higher damage. So that will not help!

 

[dave2008]

Innate sorcery+elven accuracy+CME(9th level) precasted(lasts long enough)+scorching ray(8th level) with elemental metamagic.

So how does that deal over 500 damage? I'm not calling you out, I just don't play with optimizers so I am unware of these type of builds.

 

[dave2008]

If I was designing the basics, off the top of my head:

ACTIONS
2 x Claw: 40 (12d4 +10) slashing, maximum damage (changed to bludgeoning) vs. a Prone Target
Bite: 88 (12d12 +10) slashing, plus thrown or grabbed. Bit adds +27 (6d8) fire damage the round after it has used its fire breath.

or

Fire Breath: 145 (30d8) fire; save for half; failure adds the burning condition

REACTIONS (Reacting to a Specific PC's turn)
Spell: Chooses one of its spells (Guiding Bolt lets say): 24 (7d6) radiant, plus Blinded until end of next turn
Sulfurous Snort: 21 (6d6) poison (fireball size area), save for half or also poisoned (weakened) save ends. Poison cloud lingers until end of the dragon's next turn.
Tail Sweep: 37 (6d8 +10) bludgeoning (30' cone), plus DEX save or knocked prone
Wing Buffet: 25 (6d4+10) bludgeoning, plus CON save or Blinded condition (save ends)

While I like a lot of what you are doing here. I am 100% sure this breaks the DPR budget. Could DPR budget's be raised. Yes, but we are talking about a predefined system. So I like to find better ways to design the monster within the constraints. I mean we can always just throw more at it, but what does CR even mean then. Or are you suggesting it should be a higher CR?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

One could always swap out the 2024 breath weapon damage and swap in the 2014 version.

They deal the same damage

 

[Horwath]

So how does that deal over 500 damage? I'm not calling you out, I just don't play with optimizers so I am unware of these type of builds.

9th level CME +12d8 damage on attack
8th level scorching ray, 9 rays for 2d6 damage

that is 9 attacks for 2d6+12d8, with advantage+elven accuracy 87,5% chance to hit, 14,3% chance to crit
average damage per attack: 62,1
9 attacks: 550 damage

you can still add to that dragon sorcerer damage bonus, empower metamagic, elemental adept that is treating 1's as 2's, with 126 dice rolled, it will be a few of them, possible spell attack bonus magic item.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

There are so many variables in that thought that I would never make a blanket statement like that. Or example, you originally said "needles." Needles can be very thin and pierce you under minimal pressure. One needle, not a big deal (possibly). A thousand that can still pierce you - that is going to leave a mark! Now is a thousand enough to distribute my weight (230 lbs) and not pierce me? Possibly, but also possibly not. Factors like how I step (or fall as you said - which is far worse) on them, thickness of the needle, and spacing of the needles all have an impact on whether or not they pierce my foot.

I guess in the circles I run it is not counterintuitive. What through me off was that this argument, a thousand nails is not as dangerous as one, is almost exactly what I have been saying and you were arguing against! One powerful rend is more dangerous than several weak ones. So why are you arguing against the rend doing more damage?

I don't. I said just because it does less damage than the empyrean's hammer is no good reasoning for upping its damage.
You said mass is the important factor.
I said that velocity and precision is euqally important.