D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Firwood]

I'm talking about 5e not just 5e 2024 (Hasbro has owned WoTC a long time). The poster I was responding to made the claim that Hasbro has done a terrible job minding D&D.

I'm not talking about quality or interested in an edition war, I'm talking about sales. And it's not close, 5e has simply outsold other editions by a lot.

Now, if you don't like the direction of D&D or how the current edition plays? 100% you prerogative.

Oh, you did not specify the entire production of 5E!!!
The fact that 5E is the most successful edition in D&D history is established. There is no doubt about that. I understood from reading the post that you were referring to the 2024 manual only!
I assure you that I am not interested in the slightest way in waging an edition war. If there's one thing that really doesn't affect me, it's that. Everyone plays and has fun as they see fit!
I started with BECMI, then AD&D 1&2E, then 3x, 5E and then happily went back to AD&D 2E, which is the system I have the most fun with (and of which I own so much material).
Pathfinder during the 4E era, The Dark Eye, MERP, GURPS, Fantasy Age, Traveller, Coriolis from time to time are some among the other systems I play or have played with. So the idea of one system being better than another in an absolute sense I find rather ridiculous.
Edit: as mentioned above, not being a native English speaker I probably misinterpreted what was written.
In that case I apologize.

 

[mamba]

Are you sure about this sentence? Better than EVER? Someone may just tell this is not true, and WOTC is loosing lot of customer due to their "great work" with 2024 D&D edition.

Are you sure about that last sentence? What are you basing it on?

In 2024 D&D did have more players than ever if you go by WotC, and 2024 is the fastest selling edition ever. So it certainly isn’t doing all that bad.

Are there some people not upgrading, sure. That does not necessarily mean they are a lost customer however. It does not even mean they won’t buy 2024 in a year or two. They might just wrap up their current campaign without switching rules.


Curious to see what data you have to back up your statement with

 

[mamba]

I'm sure DnD is doing great and it's definitely bigger now than it was in earlier editions, but that specific statement is sort of apples to oranges.

it’s sales then to sales now, so very much all apples.

What has changed is the number of players then vs the number of players now and the popularity of the game in general. If they had a few hundred thousand players today, then sales would be much slower.

 

[Firwood]

Are you sure about that last sentence? What are you basing it on?

In 2024 D&D did have more players than ever if you go by WotC, and 2024 is the fastest selling edition ever. So it certainly isn’t doing all that bad.

Are there some people not upgrading, sure. That does not necessarily mean they are a lost customer however. It does not even mean they won’t buy 2024 in a year or two. They might just wrap up their current campaign without switching rules.


Curious to see what data you have to back up your statement with

No data, exactly as anyone else. Only WOTC know the real numbers. As i told many times, i have just the shareholders financial report, in which there is no claim bout this huge success (Q1 through Q3 report, the Q4 is not published yet).
And to be clear, i refer to 2024 Player's Handbook sales only.

 

[mamba]

Hasbro's investor reports for Q3 2024 all show declining numbers (and there have been numerous articles about this)

because they get a lot less money from BG3 sales

 

[mamba]

No data, exactly as anyone else. Only WOTC know the real numbers. As i told many times, i have just the shareholders financial report, in which there is no claim bout this huge success (Q1 through Q3 report, the Q4 is not published yet).

that right there might be your answer, given when the PHB was released

 

[Echohawk]

No data, exactly as anyone else. Only WOTC know the real numbers. As i told many times, i have just the shareholders financial report, in which there is no claim bout this huge success (Q1 through Q3 report, the Q4 is not published yet).
And to be clear, i refer to 2024 Player's Handbook sales only.

From this, it sounds like you don't think anyone should be allowed to make a general claim that "D&D is doing better than ever" unless they can point to sales numbers for the PHB in a Hasbro financial report. To me, that seems like a strangely specific and unreasonable requirement.

 

[Kromanjon]

Perhaps WotC didn´t feel sandboxes needed much describing thinking it´s the easiest campaign form of all. I mean, it´s just plopping the characters down in a setting and telling them: "Do whatever you want. This is your sandbox."

Then one player goes, "Sandbox? But how many PHBs did WotC sell this year!"

And another player says, "It doesn´t matter! Quantity and quality are two different things!"

The third player sighs and says, "Is the 5e from 2024 even a new edition?"

And the first player interrupts him with, "looking at the quarterly reports from WotC..."

And so forth. Now THAT´S a sandbox.

 

[Minigiant]

I think one of the unspoken aspects is that Sandbox is easier to run with a lower power lower mechanical base with high power options.

Sandboxes are easier when PCs and monsters are weak but equipment and circumstances are strong.

The base agency of the players is low. The base complexity of the obstacles are high. And you can adjust from scrappy upstarts to veteran explorers to powerful dominators via how much treasure you hand out.

This is why they worked better with older editions and revivals. After 2000, RPG got too complex and mechanical for new DMs to run sandboxes.

 

[Reynard]

First of all, can we please drop this insipid argument about how popular 2024 is? It is not only irrelevant to the subject, none of you arguing are in a position to know unless you work for WotC.

I think one of the unspoken aspects is that Sandbox is easier to run with a lower power lower mechanical base with high power options.

Sandboxes are easier when PCs and monsters are weak but equipment and circumstances are strong.

The base agency of the players is low. The base complexity of the obstacles are high. And you can adjust from scrappy upstarts to veteran explorers to powerful dominators via how much treasure you hand out.

This is why they worked better with older editions and revivals. After 2000, RPG got too complex and mechanical for new DMs to run sandboxes.

I am not sure I agree with this assessment. The nature and expanse of the sandbox is impacted by "power level" but power level doesn't obviate a sandbox. I also don't buy that low power eliminates agency in play.

On the subject of "sandboxes are so easy you don't need an explanation": that coming from folks who already know that playstyle.