D&D (2024) 2024 Class Rankings (from nat1gaming.com) for ppl who believe that stuff.

Only till level 10.

Also, spell casters suck from 1-4.

As classes are closer than before, "Best" varies by level a lot more in 2024.
Fighters can out-pace barbarian damage slightly at higher levels but the gap is small. Regardless, most campaigns end around level 10, and I just don't see ranking the highest damage dealers for most campaigns as the lowest rank.
 

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It might add too much complexity, but it might be nice to have rankings for players who have deep system mastery, and rankings for players who wont. I can see that flexibility unlocks huge potential for those who mastered spells lists. But a lot of players will never and read these lists to get a leg up and then fall flat when they struggle against that requirement of system mastery to get the rated value.
 

Fighters can out-pace barbarian damage slightly at higher levels but the gap is small. Regardless, most campaigns end around level 10, and I just don't see ranking the highest damage dealers for most campaigns as the lowest rank.
Agreed.

But that applies to casters as well. They are crappy the first several levels.

You can't cast Wall of Force every combat until the campaign is over.

Which is why I disagree with those ratings.
 

Re: Martial vs Caster
The main issue is that casters get to keep their lower level slots. Level 20 Wizard can cast Shield, Enhance Abilities, and Arcane Eye without it affecting their big move.

If they scaled more like warlocks, with scaling slots, it would be a lot easier to balance. A warlock needs to think twice about casting Shield or Arcane eye.
 

It's a good that this is a game about collaborative problem-solving and not an MMO/MOBA/Royale/Gacha/etc and therefore these kinds of tiers and rankings are fully meaningless in actual practice.
 

If WotC decides to resume designing games where magic isn't ludicrously better than nonmagic at solving any given problem, then I'll believe the conversation can become much more nuanced and intricate (and, thus, much more interesting).

But either magic needs to be nerfed, which will never happen because the caster fanatics will riot, or non-magic needs to be buffed, which will never happen because the caster fanatics will riot. Unless and until at least one of those two things is true, we're going to be sucked right back into this quicksand trap every time.

In 5e, revised or not, there are enough always-excellent spells such that any given spellcaster can have at least a very good response to nearly any problem the party might face, with some room left over for more tricksy choices at higher levels. Doubly so if the caster picks up some of the better rituals, since those can be cast without a slot, this freeing slots for more damage without losing utility. Classes with zero access to magic simply cannot replicate anything like that.

If you need to be a blaster all day and have no need for utility (whether exploration, investigation, or socialization), every spellcaster can do that quite well with only 2-4 spells, plus a good cantrip. If you need to be pure utility, many spellcasters can pull that off with just 3-5 spells, many of which have multiple uses (e.g. fly is also a good combat buff). If you need a mix...by level 5 or 6, that's not hard to do.

So...yeah. Versatility is king, because "I'm very good at a couple skills" just can't compete with the breadth that even a Sorcerer or Warlock can bring, to say nothing of the Wizard.

Particularly because 5.5e has now actually made Batman Wizard real. Wizards can now change out one prepared spell per short rest, meaning every spell a Wizard knows is accessible with just an hour's nap.
I get the theory. I just just don’t agree with with it. The ability to deal and the ability to resist physical damage is still the king ability in D&D. Most reliable. Most used and the only thing that can actually end a PCs career. Magic is useful but mainly superfluous. It makes things easier. It is almost never essential.

That’s said, let’s not turn this into another martial/caster debate. My point is there are other things that matter more than how many spell slots you have and your caster level.
 

If WotC decides to resume designing games where magic isn't ludicrously better than nonmagic at solving any given problem, then I'll believe the conversation can become much more nuanced and intricate (and, thus, much more interesting).

But either magic needs to be nerfed, which will never happen because the caster fanatics will riot, or non-magic needs to be buffed, which will never happen because the caster fanatics will riot. Unless and until at least one of those two things is true, we're going to be sucked right back into this quicksand trap every time.

In 5e, revised or not, there are enough always-excellent spells such that any given spellcaster can have at least a very good response to nearly any problem the party might face, with some room left over for more tricksy choices at higher levels. Doubly so if the caster picks up some of the better rituals, since those can be cast without a slot, this freeing slots for more damage without losing utility. Classes with zero access to magic simply cannot replicate anything like that.

If you need to be a blaster all day and have no need for utility (whether exploration, investigation, or socialization), every spellcaster can do that quite well with only 2-4 spells, plus a good cantrip. If you need to be pure utility, many spellcasters can pull that off with just 3-5 spells, many of which have multiple uses (e.g. fly is also a good combat buff). If you need a mix...by level 5 or 6, that's not hard to do.

So...yeah. Versatility is king, because "I'm very good at a couple skills" just can't compete with the breadth that even a Sorcerer or Warlock can bring, to say nothing of the Wizard.

Particularly because 5.5e has now actually made Batman Wizard real. Wizards can now change out one prepared spell per short rest, meaning every spell a Wizard knows is accessible with just an hour's nap.
Caster fanatics will not riot. I’ve had heated debates over whether having super hero-like powers can be ‘non-magical’ (where your skill is so good that it can do nigh impossible feats) and people argued that it NEEDED to be based on magic or supernatural birth or some other “supernatural” explanation.

So while people complain that non-casters should be buffed, those same people complain that it would be “unrealistic”.
 



I think they really gave rogues the consideration they deserve. Part of their reasoning was bards exist so rogues skills become less relevant, but IME reliable talent is much better than other skill benefits. Uncanny dodge, evasion, cunning action, cunning strike, and even weapon mastery adds to that.

If rangers, rogues, and barbarians are what they consider the bottom but bards are among the top then the system seems pretty good overall, tbh.
 

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