Captain America: Brave New World - Official Trailer (2025)

[RangerWickett]

The issue is that Sam Wilson has no character arc in this movie.

Spoiler: Spoiler block added by moderator

He doesn't face anything that changes him and makes him able to reach Ross in the climax. The win is unearned. Like, literally anyone could have said, "Think of your daughter."

I'm not sure what the movie should have done instead, but it needed Sam to change somehow so he has to be the one to talk Ross down.

 

[jian]

Offering a bit of an international perspective. I don’t want get into the politics of why, but I note that my interest in paying to see a Captain America film has recently plummeted to around zero, and I overheard a group of my students express a similar sentiment. I’m interested to see how this does at the international box office.

Yes, and this is a much more American film than its predecessors (complete with Top Gun action sequences) so that’s not at all surprising. The cinema I was in yesterday (in Vancouver) was only half full on a Saturday.

We’re probably going to regard American films, especially with US military or spy elements (like the upcoming The Amateur) in future more in the light of, say, Chinese “wolf warrior” propaganda films than just enjoyable popcorn flicks.

 

[chuckdee]

The issue is that Sam Wilson has no character arc in this movie.

He doesn't face anything that changes him and makes him able to reach Ross in the climax. The win is unearned. Like, literally anyone could have said, "Think of your daughter."

I'm not sure what the movie should have done instead, but it needed Sam to change somehow so he has to be the one to talk Ross down.

Sam did have an arc in this movie, which was one of the reasons Bucky showed up and it was shown in his talk with Torres at the end. He had the same doubt that many have about him, i.e. he should have taken the serum. And I'd argue that he didn't need anything to change, as that was the point- he had everything he needed within him. Not his shield, not the serum, not his wings. It's who he is, and who he's been portrayed to be.

 

[jian]

Sam did have an arc in this movie, which was one of the reasons Bucky showed up and it was shown in his talk with Torres at the end. He had the same doubt that many have about him, i.e. he should have taken the serum. And I'd argue that he didn't need anything to change, as that was the point- he had everything he needed within him. Not his shield, not the serum, not his wings. It's who he is, and who he's been portrayed to be.

It was a good arc.

“I shoulda taken that serum. Bucky is full of sh*t.”

Sam’s going to love the Thunderbolts. “Serum, serum, serum, Widow, dimensional phasing, skill duplication. (Looks directly at Bucky) You’re so full of sh*t.”

 

[Clint_L]

The issue is that Sam Wilson has no character arc in this movie.

He doesn't face anything that changes him and makes him able to reach Ross in the climax. The win is unearned. Like, literally anyone could have said, "Think of your daughter."

I'm not sure what the movie should have done instead, but it needed Sam to change somehow so he has to be the one to talk Ross down.

This is most Marvel films in recent years. What's Ant Man's arc in Quantumania? What's Dr. Strange's arc in Multiverse of Madness? What's anyone arc in The Marvels? Did Guardians 3 have a character arc? Deadpool vs. Wolverine?

Most MCU films until End Game were character driven, not to mention that the entire meta-story was driven by two juxtaposed character arcs, Tony and Cap's. Now they're mostly spectacle, with diminishing returns. I could not tell you the plot of The Marvels if you put a gun to my head, and I saw it only last year or something. I can still tell you the plot of every film through End Game, though.

 

[RangerWickett]

Guardians 3 absolutely has arcs. Rocket in particular. Quill letting go of Gamora. General bonding among the group. It's why it's the only really great phase 4 film, aside from Shang Chi.

I agree Ant Man 3 and Doctor Strange 2 barely have any character arcs. Marvels has a bit with the trio learning to work together, but it's also pretty weak.

 

[chuckdee]

Photon coming to terms with being a hero and forgiving CM?

 

[jian]

Guardians 3 absolutely has arcs. Rocket in particular. Quill letting go of Gamora. General bonding among the group. It's why it's the only really great phase 4 film, aside from Shang Chi.

I agree Ant Man 3 and Doctor Strange 2 barely have any character arcs. Marvels has a bit with the trio learning to work together, but it's also pretty weak.

Nah, all three leads have arcs. Carol has to deal with her fear of letting everyone down due to the entire galaxy’s high expectations of her because she’s so powerful, and her own guilt at having wrecked Hala (even if it was somewhat justified) which caused this whole mess; Monica has to deal with her unresolved resentment of Carol for deserting her and her mother (especially during her cancer and death) but also her survivor’s guilt at not having been there when her mother died because she’d been snapped; Kamala has to deal with real high-stakes heroics and moderate her hero worship of Carol with reality. And yes, all three of them have to get close very quickly to deal with the quantum glitch linking their powers.

(And of course all of them and hundreds of SWORD staff have to deal with their flerken-related PTSD but that all happens off screen.)

 

[Clint_L]

One thing I’ve just realised, as an observation, is that this is arguably a more American Captain America film than its predecessors. I know that sounds weird, but bear with me.

BNW is more grounded in American life in some ways (as FatWS was) than any of its three predecessors, which honestly could have happened anywhere (OK, not First Avenger, but that was basically set in Pulp WW2) and where the main government/military/law enforcement was SHIELD, which is somewhat international. In BNW, the military is very definitely American and the film is comfortable with American militarism in a way more typical of, say, the Transformers films than the MCU has ever been before.

Final spoiler:

Spoiler

They killed off D-Man! WTF, guys?!

The first Captain Marvel film was literally sponsored by the US military and they have been involved in MCU films all the way back to Iron Man.

It’s never been a franchise that shied away from militarism.

 

[Clint_L]

Pretty much. To be fair, though, that is somewhat true with a lot of franchises. There's an initial great idea and inspired presentation, then diminishing returns on sequels and (worse) prequels that try to re-capture the early inspiration. Some are able to break the pattern, but the vast majority don't.

But that wasn’t the case with the MCU up through Infinity War, which is remarkable. Though I agree that it is now just another franchise.