D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Libertad]

When 5E came out in 2014, some people bemoaned that the best parts of 4E hadn't been brought forward.

Well, it's now ten years later. And guess what? Bloodied is back. Martials have weapon masteries that give them at-will powers. Many monsters impose conditions on a hit.

My hot take is that the biggest changes to 5E in the 2024 version are mostly borrowed from 4E.

What do you think?

Well, the Graze weapon mastery trait brought Damage on a Miss to the system, something which was too hot to handle even for 4e. So one could say that 2024 D&D out-4es 4e.

 

[Lord Twig]

I would first like to say that I have a generally positive view of the new 2024 rules. That said, there are certainly things they added that I dislike. And the few things that I relate to 4e (opinions on this I’m sure vary) are not all in the dislike category.

Bloodied and more interesting monster abilities seem influenced by 4e, and I like both of those.

I don't like the removal of the explanation of where monster Armor Class comes from, and I don't like the Gear line that suggests you can only loot what is listed there, despite creatures clearly using weapons that are not listed. But I don't believe that came from 4e.

Gamist handling of weapons that don't worry about how you carry them, how you switch them out so fast, and how you load a crossbow (Crossbow Expert) or pistol (Pirates with semi-automatic flintlocks with infinite clips) without hands I intensely dislike, and I don't think that has anything to do with 4e. This seems more like it came straight from video games.

Graze is blatantly "Damage on a Miss", which I associate with 4e (fair or not), and I don't like it at all. I house rule that any weapon with Graze gets the Push mastery instead.

 

[Lord Twig]

Well, the Graze weapon mastery trait brought Damage on a Miss to the system, something which was too hot to handle even for 4e. So one could say that 2024 D&D out-4es 4e.

It's funny you mentioned it just minutes before my post.

I disagree that "2024 D&D out-4es 4e" but it does feel like that is part of 4e that I don't like creeping in.

 

[Zardnaar]

There's almost nothing actually from 2e in 5e. The only thing that's even partially similar is subclasses and kits.

I really don't understand why so many people insist that 2e is hugely informing what 5e is. Where are the mechanics? It's not THAC0. It doesn't have the obscure, abstruse save categories of 2e. 2e emphatically did not do "bounded accuracy". 2e had tons of weird, idiosyncratic rules with no analogue today. Multiclass rules are absolutely nothing whatever like 2e's.

Where is the 2e in 5e?

Optional rules in dmg
Advantage mechanic
Kits/archetypes
Rulings not rules
Weapon Masteries (5.5)
Can't buy magic items (last seen 2E)
Capped ability scores (last seen 2E)

Off top of my head.

 

[pukunui]

I don't like the removal of the explanation of where monster Armor Class comes from, and I don't like the Gear line that suggests you can only loot what is listed there, despite creatures clearly using weapons that are not listed. But I don't believe that came from 4e.

I don't like the lack of the AC explanation, although I've noticed a few stat blocks that have a few mentions of something being included in the AC. It's just not in the AC line.

As for gear, yeah, that's kinda weird too ... but they at least tried to explain it in the MM intro: "Equipment mentioned outside the Gear entry is considered to be supernatural or highly specialized, and it is unusable when the monster is defeated."

And for everyone complaining about the hobgoblin doing too much damage with a longsword: "The monster’s stat block might include special flourishes that happen when the monster uses an item, and the stat block might ignore Player’s Handbook rules for that item."

Gamist handling of weapons that don't worry about how you carry them, how you switch them out so fast, and how you load a crossbow (Crossbow Expert) or pistol (Pirates with semi-automatic flintlocks with infinite clips) without hands I intensely dislike, and I don't think that has anything to do with 4e. This seems more like it came straight from video games.

This is a real pet peeve of mine.

Graze is blatantly "Damage on a Miss", which I associate with 4e (fair or not), and I don't like it at all. I house rule that any weapon with Graze gets the Push mastery instead.

I honestly don't care that much about Damage on a Miss. I never really understood why it made some people so angry.

 

[TerraDave]

When 5E came out in 2014, some people bemoaned that the best parts of 4E hadn't been brought forward.

Well, it's now ten years later. And guess what? Bloodied is back. Martials have weapon masteries that give them at-will powers. Many monsters impose conditions on a hit.

My hot take is that the biggest changes to 5E in the 2024 version are mostly borrowed from 4E.

What do you think?

Your right. But as I know all too well there will be many, many posts here saying you are wrong.

 

[Aldarc]

There's almost nothing actually from 2e in 5e. The only thing that's even partially similar is subclasses and kits.

I really don't understand why so many people insist that 2e is hugely informing what 5e is. Where are the mechanics? It's not THAC0. It doesn't have the obscure, abstruse save categories of 2e. 2e emphatically did not do "bounded accuracy". 2e had tons of weird, idiosyncratic rules with no analogue today. Multiclass rules are absolutely nothing whatever like 2e's.

Where is the 2e in 5e?

I think that the 2e in 5e is more about vibe than mechanics, particularly in regards to GM empowerment and the role of the GM as storyteller.

 

[GrimCo]

Where is the 2e in 5e?

Rulings over rules. 2ed was way less codified and had more DMs rulings involved. 3e and 4e had very heavily codifed rules. 5e relaxes that to a degree.

They did throw in some sprinkles from 4e. Core of what makes 4e 4e is AEDU system, unified resource system across all classes.

 

[Minigiant]

I honestly don't care that much about Damage on a Miss. I never really understood why it made some people so angry.

Because many people imagine a miss as the attacker solely missing and never that the defender expended energy or luck making the attack miss by dodging or parrying.

And because 3e, effects like poisons and diseases only transferred on hit then saving throw. In 4e and 5e, there are mostly only a hit roll or saving throw. So a poisoned dagger could "miss" but still poison you. Many people couldn't grow that a miss could still have contact because that didn't happen.

2 rolls effects is bad design unless you are purposely attempting to mitigate failure via additional rolls. 2 rolls slows down the game and plus more stress on player characters to boost multiple defences.

But one of those Good Game Design vs Romanticized Tradition things.

 

[Joshua Randall]

While theoretically possible, generally unlikely. If it's hard candy it's going to be a chocolate covered jawbreaker which is....rare, to say the least. If it's soft candy, such things do exist, but are generally considered chocolates, e.g. truffles or cherry cordials.

What if it's candy shell, then milk chocolate, then more candy shell, then a center of oozy goo like Bubblicious gum?

And more important -- which RGP does this describe?