D&D 5E I feel like the surveys gaslit WotC about """"Backwards Compatibility""""

[Imaro]

Yes, stasis with some well received changes: that is sustainable for decades.

This is how most boardgames...wargames, videogames, ccg's, etc. all itterate and in general they are vastly more successful than ttrpg's. It's weird to me that some expect ttrpg's to go out of print, stop being published and then be redesigned from the ground up under the same name every couple of years with a totally new rules set... as a norm.

 

[Parmandur]

This is how most boardgames...wargames, videogames, ccg's, etc. all itterate and in general they are vastly more successful than ttrpg's. It's weird to me that some expect ttrpg's to go out of print, stop being published and then be redesigned from the ground up under the same name every couple of years with a totally new rules set... as a norm.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense: Call of Cthulu has been doing exactly this sort of stable approach for over 40 years, and is arguably the most successful RPG after D&D and it's clones.

 

[Remathilis]

So you're not arguing for what would be better for WotC D&D 5e fans... or even fans of '24 Revised...You're arguing for...Because it's always been done like this... IMO, an even better reason to try something different since we've never really seen a great level of success in an edition swich (outside of 5e). Yeah not really seeing how this argument for keep on doing what you've been doing benefits anyone except those who aren't WotC fans, aren't D&D 5e fans and/or want D&D 5e to be replaced (as I've been stated about your suggested course of action from the beginning).

Remember he's arguig from an enlightened self-interest rather than from a communal standpoint; that is to say what is best for HIM, not Us.

That said, I really think WotC thinks it found the secret sauce with 5e. Lighter than 3e, not as big a departure as 4th. I think the goal is to make the Core 5e engine THE ongoing D&D engine. To do that, they need the 5e engine to run for a good long while. Eventually, we will get a 6e, but it's not going to be the radical departure from its predecessor that 3e and 4e were. It will be bigger than 2024, but not as radical as others. We may see stuff like unified spell lists or subclass progression then, but it will be after 15-20 years of 5e (14/24) being the default type of D&D. A whole generation will have known nothing but 5e style D&D in one form or another. Once that happens, shifting from a backwards compatible 5e update to a less compatible but still built on the same engine 6e will be easier.

 

[mamba]

Was 5e a better proposition for fans of 4e? 4e for fans of 3e? 3e for fans of 2e? I can keep going. And yet...all those editions happened.

and they all happened because sales had evaporated

 

[mamba]

While not mechanical, the complete re-org of the DMG is a literal gamechanger.

the DMG and MM are generally seen as improvements, the PHB gets some mixed results on that. The PHB got a long playtest while the others did not. I have been critical of the playtest approach for a while and I cannot help but wonder if there is a correlation

 

[mamba]

It's weird to me that some expect ttrpg's to go out of print, stop being published and then be redesigned from the ground up under the same name every couple of years with a totally new rules set... as a norm.

which is not what I was arguing for…

 

[Remathilis]

the DMG and MM are generally seen as improvements, the PHB gets some mixed results on that. The PHB got a long playtest while the others did not. I have been critical of the playtest approach for a while and I cannot help but wonder if there is a correlation

The PHB has to be the player-facing side, so it tends to be more scrutinized since people tend to focus on the core elements (classes, spells, etc) in it. The DMG and MM are mostly DM facing and have a little more wiggle room. Less people get upset they messed up a monster stat block than people upset they messed up a class.

 

[Parmandur]

Remember he's arguig from an enlightened self-interest rather than from a communal standpoint; that is to say what is best for HIM, not Us.

That said, I really think WotC thinks it found the secret sauce with 5e. Lighter than 3e, not as big a departure as 4th. I think the goal is to make the Core 5e engine THE ongoing D&D engine. To do that, they need the 5e engine to run for a good long while. Eventually, we will get a 6e, but it's not going to be the radical departure from its predecessor that 3e and 4e were. It will be bigger than 2024, but not as radical as others. We may see stuff like unified spell lists or subclass progression then, but it will be after 15-20 years of 5e (14/24) being the default type of D&D. A whole generation will have known nothing but 5e style D&D in one form or another. Once that happens, shifting from a backwards compatible 5e update to a less compatible but still built on the same engine 6e will be easier.

I would say that would make any such change even less likely: if after 10 years, backwards compatibility was a primary goal...after 20 years, 30 years...that will only increase.

 

[Parmandur]

the DMG and MM are generally seen as improvements, the PHB gets some mixed results on that. The PHB got a long playtest while the others did not. I have been critical of the playtest approach for a while and I cannot help but wonder if there is a correlation

Thr PHB has been pretty well received, too...?

Massively improved the flow of character creation, structurally, and the organization of information.

 

[mamba]

Thr PHB has been pretty well received, too...?

I am not saying it is widely criticized, just that it got more mixed results

Massively improved the flow of character creation, structurally, and the organization of information.

none of which have anything to do with the playtest. I agree that it mostly gets praise for the stuff WotC never asked for feedback on…