Sinners (2025)

[Mannahnin]

I absolutely loved it. It tried a bit too much at once (

Spoiler

as much as I love racists getting shot, the KKK shootout after the climax felt wrong and unnecessary

You know, I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, it did feel a bit anticlimactic, and like gilding the lily.

OTOH, it also confirms that Remmick was telling the truth, and that the KKK really were coming. If the vampires hadn't showed up, they (and probably anyone else still there in the morning) would have been lynched. Their dream of having their own place ("For Us, By Us", remember) truly was a soap bubble. That's the biggest horror of this horror movie, and maybe drives the central point home in a way the vampires alone couldn't. You can kill an exploiter, you can defend yourself from a murderer or stake a vampire, but you can't just kill an exploitative system and society that you're trapped in. The movie makes this point a little more subtly in other places, like the twins talking about how Chicago is like Mississippi, but with tall buildings instead of plantations. Or how the people attending the opening night didn't actually have enough money to make the juke joint profitable and sustainable. But the lynching squad showing up really hammers the point home.

 

[chuckdee]

@Mannahnin

Thanks for writing that. You get it. It's the same as the post-credits scene. Both show something to those willing to look beyond the surface. It was merely a dream, and a dream remembered is better than immortality. It was a case of show, not tell... but in the blatant obviousness of the delivery, to some, the more subtle message was missed.

 

[Retros_x]

That, I completely disagree with. I can think of fantasy, comedy, romance, martial arts, superhero. etc, movies featuring fighting vampires. But the best movies transcend convenient genre labels in any case.

But Horror is IMO always at least a partial genre if your main conflict is about fighting vampires. Even if its a horror comedy, its still horror.

 

[Retros_x]

You know, I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, it did feel a bit anticlimactic, and like gilding the lily.

OTOH, it also confirms that Remmick was telling the truth, and that the KKK really were coming. If the vampires hadn't showed up, they (and probably anyone else still there in the morning) would have been lynched. Their dream of having their own place ("For Us, By Us", remember) truly was a soap bubble. That's the biggest horror of this horror movie, and maybe drives the central point home in a way the vampires alone couldn't. You can kill an exploiter, you can defend yourself from a murderer or stake a vampire, but you can't just kill an exploitative system and society that you're trapped in. The movie makes this point a little more subtly in other places, like the twins talking about how Chicago is like Mississippi, but with tall buildings instead of plantations. Or how the people attending the opening night didn't actually have enough money to make the juke joint profitable and sustainable. But the lynching squad showing up really hammers the point home.

Well said and I absolutely agree with your main point here. I remember in the movie

Spoiler

when Remmick told that the KKK was coming for them, I already believed him. The confirmation was nice, and you phrased that really poignant. But why the epic shootout? The shootout was relatively long for the placement in the story and felt just a bit too much and was unneccesary, you could've shown in a different way that Remmick told the truth. For me it would've been enough to show a short scene how the lynch squad arrives, ready to kill, but with the protagonists all gone already.
And lets be honest, that shootout was another soap bubble. A single just hero killing all the evil racists is also just a fantasy and it muddles the core theme you pointed out. Why does the movie deconstruct the one fantasy, but fulfills the other fantasy?

 

[Retros_x]

@Mannahnin

Thanks for writing that. You get it. Both show something to those willing to look beyond the surface. It was a case of show, not tell... but in the blatant obviousness of the delivery, to some, the more subtle message was missed.

I am sorry but this has big Rick-and-Morty-Fan-Meme energy.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But Horror is IMO always at least a partial genre if your main conflict is about fighting vampires. Even if its a horror comedy, its still horror.

Disagree. If there is no attempt to scare the audience, it is not horror. What type of monster is in it is irrelevant, it the fear factor that makes something horror. You are pretty much saying "all movies with horses in them are Westerns".

 

[TiQuinn]

But Horror is IMO always at least a partial genre if your main conflict is about fighting vampires. Even if its a horror comedy, its still horror.

You can say that about any genre. Action Comedy, Romantic Adventure, Sci-Fi Drama.

 

[Mannahnin]

Well said and I absolutely agree with your main point here. I remember in the movie

Spoiler

when Remmick told that the KKK was coming for them, I already believed him. The confirmation was nice, and you phrased that really poignant. But why the epic shootout? The shootout was relatively long for the placement in the story and felt just a bit too much and was unneccesary, you could've shown in a different way that Remmick told the truth. For me it would've been enough to show a short scene how the lynch squad arrives, ready to kill, but with the protagonists all gone already.
And lets be honest, that shootout was another soap bubble. A single just hero killing all the evil racists is also just a fantasy and it muddles the core theme you pointed out. Why does the movie deconstruct the one fantasy, but fulfills the other fantasy?

The shootout was long. Like I said, I agree that it was probably gilding the lily. I suspect showing that Remmick was telling the truth, and the length, were concessions to mass market audiences. Give Smoke a cathartic win over at least these bastards in this moment. Though the win is pyrrhic, of course, since he's already lost his brother and the woman he loves and he still dies. If there is any justice or triumph it's not in this world, but in the sweet by and by.

 

[billd91]

Spoiler

The shootout was long. Like I said, I agree that it was probably gilding the lily. I suspect showing that Remmick was telling the truth, and the length, were concessions to mass market audiences. Give Smoke a cathartic win over at least these bastards in this moment. Though the win is pyrrhic, of course, since he's already lost his brother and the woman he loves and he still dies. If there is any justice or triumph it's not in this world, but in the sweet by and by.

I think it also gives us closure that

Spoiler

Smoke successfully did the right thing by Annie.

 

[Rabulias]

On the one hand, it did feel a bit anticlimactic, and like gilding the lily.

OTOH, it also confirms that Remmick was telling the truth, and that the KKK really were coming. If the vampires hadn't showed up, they (and probably anyone else still there in the morning) would have been lynched. Their dream of having their own place ("For Us, By Us", remember) truly was a soap bubble. That's the biggest horror of this horror movie, and maybe drives the central point home in a way the vampires alone couldn't. You can kill an exploiter, you can defend yourself from a murderer or stake a vampire, but you can't just kill an exploitative system and society that you're trapped in. The movie makes this point a little more subtly in other places, like the twins talking about how Chicago is like Mississippi, but with tall buildings instead of plantations. Or how the people attending the opening night didn't actually have enough money to make the juke joint profitable and sustainable. But the lynching squad showing up really hammers the point home.

I think the scene was fine, but I disagree with some of your points.

Spoiler

I think the brothers expected an attack. They had the box of weapons. After purchasing the mill, they explicitly warned Hogwood what would happen if the Klan came onto the property. Even if the vampires never showed up, they would have been ready, I think.