D&D General What You're Missing with Torches in B/X D&D

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

A lantern is 60gp weight, with 20gp per oil flask, while torches are 25gp weight each. For 1 hour of illumination, you'd need a lantern and 1 flasks of oil (80 gp weight) vs. 6 torches (150 gp weight). The longer you go, the more and more weight efficient lanterns are.

Shiroiken has said what I was aiming for.

What game are ya'll even talking about here?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What game are ya'll even talking about here?

B/X.

"GP weight" is very literal. The weight of N coins of gold is N gp-weight.

The B/X text itself, or at least the one I'm looking at, explicitly refers to things by "coins weight" to describe encumbrance. A character has chain mail, sword, shield, a bow and arrows, and various miscellanies. This is listed as such:

This was a searchable PDF I found through Google, searched for the word "weight". So, while torches are six per 1 gp to purchase, they occupy some amount of weight. The doc I found doesn't seem to include torch weight (or it isn't OCR'd to search for), but it's 25 coins weight per torch based on what Shiroiken said.

You earn XP from carrying coin back. Hence, carrying a bunch of heavy torches costs you more XP than a lantern and equivalent number of oil flasks. They are more weight efficient, but more costly to use.

 

[Mannahnin]

A lantern is 60gp weight, with 20gp per oil flask, while torches are 25gp weight each. For 1 hour of illumination, you'd need a lantern and 1 flasks of oil (80 gp weight) vs. 6 torches (150 gp weight). The longer you go, the more and more weight efficient lanterns are.

Shiroiken has said what I was aiming for.

I thought torches were good for 1 hour each. Or is that a 1e (as opposed to BX) thing?

A torch in both of those editions is good for an hour, and a flank of lantern oil for four hours.

AD&D: My DMG has a torch at 25cn weight (2.5lbs), a lantern at 60cn weight (6lbs), but a full flask at 20cn (2lbs). Not 80. So with the four hour duration we start at 8lbs total for the lantern and flask of oil vs 10lbs for four torches, and it gets better for the lantern from there, since another flask is only 2lbs and four more torches is another 10lbs.

For cost, a torch is a mere 1CP, 1/200th of a GP (people often forget that AD&D had 20sp to a gp and 5gp to a pp, instead of being completely powers of 10), where a hooded lantern is 7gp and a bullseye lantern 12gp, a flask of oil 1gp. So torches are always cheaper. But much more encumbering.

Torches actually cast wider light in AD&D, 40' radius compared to 30' for a lantern. A bullseye additionally can cast focused light 10' wide in one direction to 80'.

B/X: Uses a simplified encumbrance system. Weight for generic mundane equipment is abstracted to 80cn total and the DM can reserve judgement to declare someone heavily encumbered if a player abuses this. You only actually count weapons, armor, and treasure. So encumbrance doesn't really come into the comparison. Cost for Lantern 10gp, cost for flask of oil 2gp, cost for six torches 1gp, Torches remain more cost effective always. Both cast light in a 30' radius.

In both games lanterns may be shuttered to conceal the light without extinguishing it, they protect the flame from being extinguished by wind, and they can be set down conveniently without going out.

Also, flaming oil is a really handy weapon in both editions, so carrying flasks of oil is often a good idea either way.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

The doc I found doesn't seem to include torch weight (or it isn't OCR'd to search for), but it's 25 coins weight per torch based on what Shiroiken said.

It doesn't have torch weight, because the weight of individual adventuring gear wasn't defined until the Mentzer Expert set came out (1983). In Molvay/Cook B/X (1981), all adventuring gear together, regardless of quantity or type, counts for a total of 80cns of weight. You quoted that exact section back to me.

Shiroiken is pulling numbers from other editions which is completely irrelevant when talking about B/X (and his numbers don't even match Mentzer expert!)

Note I am not using any numbers from Ad&d since thats an entirely different game and its rules have no bearing on B/X.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why, what does Shadowdark do?

Makes torches (and light sources generally) one of the most important aspects of gameplay. There's a real time timer for them, DMs are instructed to have monsters try and attack the light (no PCs in the game have darkvision) and using torches as weapons (since you're not just handwaving light sources in the game) is a regular component of many games.

As opposed to games where lighting mostly doesn't matter, having light sources be central to how the game goes changes gameplay quite a bit in my experience (I've been running Shadowdark for two years now).