Let's Talk About Metacurrency

[VHawkwinter]

All the parties involved were fictional, and the measurements were done to support a narrative, not to establish objective reality.

Absolutely true; But that narrative is better supported by continuity that prevents their acts from coming across as Deus-Ex-Machina. Which is more or less what the hard "world simulation" angle (and dislike of metacurrencies) Micah has been saying he likes in a TTRPG is as well, no? Like, no matter how much fidelity you pour into a D&D campaign, it's always going to be fiction. Just highly consistent fiction.

(The "Please don't pull me out of my TTRPG Character-Immersion-Flow-State to manage out of character temporary-GM beans if not absolutely necessary" position I gave back on page 30 which is my objection, being a different but similar objection to metacurrencies).

 

[Micah Sweet]

All the parties involved were fictional, and the measurements were done to support a narrative, not to establish objective reality.

They measured the reality of the imagined world, in comparison to each other and similar effects from that world. Like all sim mechanics. I have many books full of super hero statistics for one game or another that provide measurements that are meaningful for the system and/or setting for which they were created. Nobody in this discussion is talking about a reality outside of the fiction. Sim is about consistency within the measuring system under discussion.

 

[Maxperson]

All of that is true, but nonetheless measurement happens for all of these. A lot, in games, within the comics, by individual. It's not necessarily consistent from example to example, but that kind of measurement and ranking happens all the time with supers.

The point is that measurement doesn't matter when the measurements are 3, 7, 4, 3, 9, 12, 2, 5, and ?(whatever the next guy is going to use). When the "measurements" = whatever the writer feels like, it's no different than Batman who has whatever the writer feels like. You can measure Batman's Bat Shark Repellant after he uses it, too.

 

[Maxperson]

Absolutely true; But that narrative is better supported by continuity that prevents their acts from coming across as Deus-Ex-Machina. Which is more or less what the hard "world simulation" angle (and dislike of metacurrencies) Micah has been saying he likes in a TTRPG is as well, no? Like, no matter how much fidelity you pour into a D&D campaign, it's always going to be fiction. Just highly consistent fiction.

The point is that comics, even for heroes like Spiderman and the Hulk, have never been consistent, let alone highly consistent. Hell, Superman couldn't even fly when he first began life as a hero back in Action Comics #1.

 

[VHawkwinter]

The point is that comics, even for heroes like Spiderman and the Hulk, have never been consistent, let alone highly consistent. Hell, Superman couldn't even fly when he first began life as a hero back in Action Comics #1.

Superman in action comics #1 is a whole other canon from the worlds where Superman could fly, no? I thought DC did a lot of those complete resets and starting over.

But I was a Marvel fan (mostly Spider-Man and X-Men titles) from the late 90s to 2014, and stopped reading Marvel entirely after the incursions universe destruction and continuity break. They were pretty consistent over that ~20 year period, with changes in character abilities normally being explained in advance through in-fiction plot events that made sense.

 

[Artamo]

Superman in action comics #1 is a whole other canon from the worlds where Superman could fly, no? I thought DC did a lot of those complete resets and starting over.

But I was a Marvel fan (mostly Spider-Man and X-Men titles) from the late 90s to 2014, and stopped reading Marvel entirely after the incursions universe destruction and continuity break. They were pretty consistent over that ~20 year period, with changes in character abilities normally being explained in advance through in-fiction plot events that made sense.

Only sometimes is there an in-world explanation that tries to rationalize the change. Superman’s flight changed for the same character long before there was a kind of multiverse/Crisis on Infinite Earths type explanation for the differences. It simply changed one day. Wonder Woman used to need the invisible jet for decades but then back in the 70s, a writer decided she could glide without it. Even Spider-man - his spider-sense ability is highly variable with sometimes it being an immediate danger sense from his surroundings to a wide-range precognitive ability, it varies based on whether he trusts the person (until another writer decides that doesn’t matter), etc.

 

[Scott Christian]

It is really, really hard to "suck" in Daggerheart. I would suggest players to be proactive and not worry about the possibility of failure. Anything you do moves the game forward.

I agree with this. And it is 100% true at low levels. But, we reached tier 3 at the end of our campaign. And while no one could "suck" during their turn, there was a giant canyon of difference between what different players could accomplish on their turn. And this had nothing to do with the GM, who did a great job. It was just all in the builds and choices in levelling.

 

[Fenris-77]

I agree with this. And it is 100% true at low levels. But, we reached tier 3 at the end of our campaign. And while no one could "suck" during their turn, there was a giant canyon of difference between what different players could accomplish on their turn. And this had nothing to do with the GM, who did a great job. It was just all in the builds and choices in levelling.

That sounds like any group of supers I've ever read about in a comic. I'm going to guess that some people will shout about 'balance', to which I shrug.

 

[Maxperson]

Superman in action comics #1 is a whole other canon from the worlds where Superman could fly, no? I thought DC did a lot of those complete resets and starting over.

But I was a Marvel fan (mostly Spider-Man and X-Men titles) from the late 90s to 2014, and stopped reading Marvel entirely after the incursions universe destruction and continuity break. They were pretty consistent over that ~20 year period, with changes in character abilities normally being explained in advance through in-fiction plot events that made sense.

My point is that they've basically started over with a bunch of heroes. When Superman died and came back he was very different than before he died and came back. His abilities have varied a ton over the years. Not just in which ones he has, but also with how strong those powers are. Strong enough to move a planet, but has to brace himself and make effort to stop a train! He can fly fast enough to break the speed of light, but often has to make effort to get across the city in time to save someone.

At this point I doubt there's a hero or villain out there who has measurable abilities, because the value of that measurement is wholly dependent on what the writer has picked for that hero or villain for that day.

 

[Umbran]

They measured the reality of the imagined world, in comparison to each other and similar effects from that world. Like all sim mechanics.

Yeah, yeah, I still have my copies of the original Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe tucked away in longboxes.

The thing you are missing is that measurement itself, happening within a fiction, is a work of fiction, and works of fiction have narrative purposes.

The canons of the various comics universes honor those measurements more in the breaking than in anything else.