D&D 5E (2024) Indirectly Buffing Rogues, Rangers, Monks Via Magic Items?

[Zardnaar]

I was trying to point out that this is a weakness of 5e's design that was intentionally put there, and which could have been designed in a different way, such that this wasn't actually required literally every single game.

Your favorite edition isnt any better.

Certain classes were better, 90% of magic items were trash and certain builds with those magic items were way better.

Problem was actually worse.

5E its certain classes at certain levels. Most of its also theory craft.

Rangers tier 1 are great. The fall off level 11. Most games dont go to level 11 apparently.

 

[ECMO3]

For me, it's character-focused.

How can you tell if you evaluate it by watching play?

The system mastery you talk about in another post is entirely player-based, not character-based. Players who know and use the "exploits" will be more effective than those who don't, in some case much, much more effective even with similar character designs. I think many would feel slighted if you tilt the game because of that.

I understand the rules and how to play and someone else is rewarded because they don't?

I also find that those who have system mastery also generally (not always) understand pretty clearly how the group will best benefit from a certain magic item and will usually steer that item to that person.

 

[Zardnaar]

How can you tell if you evaluate it by watching play?

The system mastery you talk about in another post is entirely player-based, not character-based. Players who know and use the "exploits" will be more effective than those who don't, in some case much, much more effective even with similar character designs. I think many would feel slighted if you tilt the game because of that.

I understand the rules and how to play and someone else is rewarded because they don't?

I also find that those who have system mastery also generally (not always) understand pretty clearly how the group will best benefit from a certain magic item and will usually steer that item to that person.

Basically how we do it. If theres a dispute roll dice highest result wins. Winner probably misses out on next item that matters.

 

[TwoSix]

How can you tell if you evaluate it by watching play?

The system mastery you talk about in another post is entirely player-based, not character-based. Players who know and use the "exploits" will be more effective than those who don't, in some case much, much more effective even with similar character designs. I think many would feel slighted if you tilt the game because of that.

I understand the rules and how to play and someone else is rewarded because they don't?

I also find that those who have system mastery also generally (not always) understand pretty clearly how the group will best benefit from a certain magic item and will usually steer that item to that person.

Functionally irrelevant.

At its core, 5e is a neotrad game based around demonstration of character concept, not player skill. If a player isn't able to demonstrate their character concept effectively, as a GM, you give them a bit of an assist.

I'm the most skilled "operator" of the 5e rules at my tables by a decent margin. But since I understand the 5e social contract, I have no problem with other players getting targeted boosts that I don't need. The only time I ever take magic items is when my character build is literally the only character that would benefit from it.

 

[Lord Twig]

I think it is a mistake that all of the popular theory crafters don't use magic items. It disadvantages the weapon users and over-values spell casters. A sorcerer isn't getting a +3 Wand of the Warmage*, but a Ranger can have a +3 bow or a Monk can have +3 hand wraps. It also favors big two-handed weapons over two-weapon combatants. A Ranger with two +3 weapons is going to get more out of it than a Barbarian with a +3 greatsword.

Edit: *Actually, they can. I don't know why I didn't think is scaled. Still, it is typically for just one attack and won't get the benefit for multiple attacks. Warlock's with Eldritch blast would though.

 

[Tigris]

I think it is a mistake that all of the popular theory crafters don't use magic items. It disadvantages the weapon users and over-values spell casters. A sorcerer isn't getting a +3 Wand of the Warmage, but a Ranger can have a +3 bow or a Monk can have +3 hand wraps. It also favors big two-handed weapons over two-weapon combatants. A Ranger with two +3 weapons is going to get more out of it than a Barbarian with a +3 greatsword.

Well this is because 5E is balanced without magical items, or it says it is. 5.5 does say how many items a party should get in average, but there is in general no free choice, there are not, like in 4E or 3.5 or pathfinder 2 etc., direct mechanics to buy what you want, you are purely dependant on a GM, so you cant assume you have specific items. Many GMs just roll on random table for items even.


And in published adventurers its even more over the place. The Wizard might get a magical staff which lets them cast shield and mage armor several times for free and gives +1 to armor, while the only other magical weapon you find is a +1 magical staff under a goblins bed, which is not really an upgrade for most martials.


Or the rare magical item you get in the campaign (which is crossed off from the list of magical items per rarity per group) is a ring which needs atunement, and needs a reaction and a charge to reroll a failed dexterity saving throw. An item which is only ever really used if one person has not already 3 atunement slots.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think it is a mistake that all of the popular theory crafters don't use magic items. It disadvantages the weapon users and over-values spell casters. A sorcerer isn't getting a +3 Wand of the Warmage, but a Ranger can have a +3 bow or a Monk can have +3 hand wraps. It also favors big two-handed weapons over two-weapon combatants. A Ranger with two +3 weapons is going to get more out of it than a Barbarian with a +3 greatsword.

So e of them have addressed that.

In practice martials do get better loot generally.

Published adventures tend towards traditional stuff though. Armor sword and board etc.

If youre an archer for example good luck getting rich more than a +1 weapon.

Ive been experimenting. I dont want buy what you like (that obsoletes 90% of everything see 3E, 4E).

Hence curated lists. I dont hand out much in the way of vicious weapons (they're "the best").

And if you open it up to buy anything you like spellcasters will likely aim for the spell DC boosts and some of them stack.

I'm also using 3E stuff a bit. Eg keen elemental weapons (+1d6 fire or whatever).

Im lining the BG3 spellstick type weapons.

 

[Seramus]

Basically if you pick a "weak" class youre getting your ites dropped a bit earlier and theyre a bit better.

Thoughts?

A classic tactic dating back to as long as D&D has been a thing. Countless forum arguments have been waged around the idea that "martials are just as good as spellcasters because I give them more magic items."

 

[Zardnaar]

An classic tactic dating back to as long as D&D has been a thing. Countless forum arguments have been waged around the idea that "martials are just as good as spellcasters because I give them more magic items."

Without them tgey still better than most spell casters at levels that matter.

Theres just very few spellcastervitems that direct boost damage or whatever.

Even in older D&D. Alot gove you more spells sone of which will boost damage eg fireball.

Bracers of defense on a wizard is nice to have but its no frostbrand or whatever.

Being able to buy or easily cradt whatever you like was a big mistake.

 

[Lord Twig]

Well this is because 5E is balanced without magical items, or it says it is. 5.5 does say how many items a party should get in average, but there is in general no free choice, there are not, like in 4E or 3.5 or pathfinder 2 etc., direct mechanics to buy what you want, you are purely dependant on a GM, so you cant assume you have specific items. Many GMs just roll on random table for items even.


And in published adventurers its even more over the place. The Wizard might get a magical staff which lets them cast shield and mage armor several times for free and gives +1 to armor, while the only other magical weapon you find is a +1 magical staff under a goblins bed, which is not really an upgrade for most martials.


Or the rare magical item you get in the campaign (which is crossed off from the list of magical items per rarity per group) is a ring which needs atunement, and needs a reaction and a charge to reroll a failed dexterity saving throw. An item which is only ever really used if one person has not already 3 atunement slots.

Actually, D&D 2024 does include rules for handing out magic items by level.
Magic Items Awarded by Level

It also includes a paragraph on providing your characters the magic items they want.

Player Wish List. Encourage your players to keep a wish list of magic items they hope their characters will find in the course of the campaign. If you want to award a magic item but don’t have a specific magic item in mind, you can pick an item of the appropriate rarity from your players’ wish list.