D&D 5E Sorcerer/Warlord - Is 5E SRD The Solution or AL The Problem?

ChrisCarlson · Jan 19, 2016

Ath-kethin said:
I don't think anybody is making a case that every player/table functions the same, or that no player/group will encounter problems unique to them. I think the caustic responses tend to come from situations where someone takes a problem their specific table or situation is having and tries to extrapolate it into a system problem.

I may just be lucky. I remember people complaining about problems in 2e that were never issues at my table/group, and were never issues for anybody I met at the time. The same thing seems to be happening again now, and its amazing to me how badly some people seem to need problems to exist in the game.

I wouldn't try to argue that the game system - any system - is perfect. But I just don't seem to run into the kind of problems many people have, and from what I've seen here on the boards (and the WotC boards before them), I am not alone in that position.

This is very much my take on this phenomenon as well. Well put.

The way I see it: Sorcerers can do thing no other class can do, which is a substantive benefit. They have roughly equivalent uses of their magic per day as other full casters. So the trade-off has to be spell selection. My experience with 5e thus far has lead me to believe that a player who understands how to play a sorcerer generally gets a lot of mileage out of their otherwise limited spell options by way of smart spell choices in the first place coupled with wise metamagic selection/application.

I also tend to think a great deal of the sorcerer hand-wringing stems from white-room "analysis" devoid of any practical table play. This is a common problem around here, unfortunately.

jayoungr · Jan 21, 2016

delericho said:
I'm not certain on the Warlord - it's obviously not currently open with OGL

Wait, why not? Is it just the name that's the problem? And how did someone already publish one if it's not currently open?

MoonSong · Jan 21, 2016

jayoungr said:
Wait, why not? Is it just the name that's the problem? And how did someone already publish one if it's not currently open?

DMs Guild =/= SRD. Dms Guild is not really open content.

GX.Sigma · Jan 21, 2016

Tony Vargas said:
The Sorcerer also gets /fewer/ slots than the Wizard, so it's secondary advantage has been reversed, as well.

Just wanted to point out that this is not true, except at 1st level. They have about the same number of slots from 2-7, then the Sorcerer actually pulls ahead starting at 8.

[sblock="Boring Math"]The Wizard gets Arcane Recovery, and the Sorcerer can use Sorcery Points to create spell slots. At level 2, they can both make an extra 1st-level slot. At level 3, they can both make a 2nd-level spell slot. (The Wizard's exchange rate for lower level slots is better, but the Sorcerer catches up at the even levels.) At level 5, they can both make a 3rd-level spell slot. At level 8, the Sorcerer can make a 4th-level slot and a 1st-level slot. At this point, the Sorcerer actually has more spell slots than the wizard. The gap continues to widen from then on. At 10th level, the Sorcerer can make a 5th-level slot and a 2nd-level slot (or five 1st-level slots), while the Wizard can only make a 5th-level slot (or five 1st-level slots). And so on.

Note: This assumes you want the highest-level spell slots you can get. If you want to get back as many 1st-level slots as possible, the Wizard has a slight advantage at odd levels.[/sblock]

Additionally, Sorcerers can create spell slots as a bonus action whenever they want, whereas Wizards need a short rest and can only do it once per day. A 5th-level Sorcerer can cast fireball three times in a row. I have seen this happen. A dragon ambushed the party, and the Sorcerer triple-fireballed it to death. A Wizard can't do that.

Not to mention that the Sorcerer can also spend these points for other unique effects.

Tony Vargas · Jan 22, 2016

GX.Sigma said:
Just wanted to point out that this is not true, except at 1st level. They have about the same number of slots from 2-7, then the Sorcerer actually pulls ahead starting at 8.

"Boring Math"

Thanks for that. I've had people shouting that the Sorcerer gets fewer spells so much that I hadn't bothered to check. FWIW, the Sorcerer had significantly more slots than the wizard in 3.5, something 4e changed. Maybe some more sorcery points would be enough to fix the class up, afterall?

ChrisCarlson · Jan 22, 2016

GX.Sigma said:
Just wanted to point out that this is not true, except at 1st level. They have about the same number of slots from 2-7, then the Sorcerer actually pulls ahead starting at 8.

[sblock="Boring Math"]The Wizard gets Arcane Recovery, and the Sorcerer can use Sorcery Points to create spell slots. At level 2, they can both make an extra 1st-level slot. At level 3, they can both make a 2nd-level spell slot. (The Wizard's exchange rate for lower level slots is better, but the Sorcerer catches up at the even levels.) At level 5, they can both make a 3rd-level spell slot. At level 8, the Sorcerer can make a 4th-level slot and a 1st-level slot. At this point, the Sorcerer actually has more spell slots than the wizard. The gap continues to widen from then on. At 10th level, the Sorcerer can make a 5th-level slot and a 2nd-level slot (or five 1st-level slots), while the Wizard can only make a 5th-level slot (or five 1st-level slots). And so on.

Note: This assumes you want the highest-level spell slots you can get. If you want to get back as many 1st-level slots as possible, the Wizard has a slight advantage at odd levels.[/sblock]

Additionally, Sorcerers can create spell slots as a bonus action whenever they want, whereas Wizards need a short rest and can only do it once per day. A 5th-level Sorcerer can cast fireball three times in a row. I have seen this happen. A dragon ambushed the party, and the Sorcerer triple-fireballed it to death. A Wizard can't do that.

Not to mention that the Sorcerer can also spend these points for other unique effects.

I regret only that I can give but one XP. So here's a cookie...

delericho · Jan 22, 2016

jayoungr said:
Wait, why not?

Simply put, there's no Warlord in the 3e or 5e SRDs.

Is it just the name that's the problem?

Not really. Anyone could do a class called "Warlord", but that doesn't help - what's wanted is a class that looks and feels like the 4e Warlord, and that's something more specific. In particular, there are a whole load of powers that might need translation, and that aren't currently open either.

I don't believe it's an insurmountable problem, but it's something that would need some additional work.

(And, of course, note that I said it's not currently open. That could, of course, change.)

And how did someone already publish one if it's not currently open?

As [MENTION=6689464]MoonSong[/MENTION] says, DMguild isn't the same as OGL. Indeed, it's actually quite important the publishers are careful not to cross the streams, as DMguild requires exclusivity while OGL requires openness.

Azurewraith · Jan 22, 2016

Ok way to much talk about class that must not be named here i don't get the reason why its been stuck on a pedestal doubt i ever will people cite non magic healing i raise you a medic kit(or what ever it is called total fail on my part).

Sorcerers are mostly ok with the UA and SCAG additions are great if your DM don't like them well find a new DM the meta magic thing i think it needs a tweak so it doesn't use sorcery points just give it a lvl+CHA mod a day per long rest limit, this lets all those sorcery points go towards making more spell slots alleviating some of the strain of there lack of slots. Maybe add in a few sorcerer only spells.

The minor ranger debate going on here look were just being pedantic the hunter ranger works fine yes it uses spells but re-fluff and there gone! as for BMs yes they need work not the 2pcs in 1class some people want but split the power so its like 35-40% pc and the rest in the beast.

Sorry if any of this is a repeat i got to page 4 and had to go out didn't want to not throw in my 2c.

D&D 5E Sorcerer/Warlord - Is 5E SRD The Solution or AL The Problem?

ChrisCarlson

First Post

jayoungr

Legend

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin

GX.Sigma

Adventurer

Tony Vargas

Legend

ChrisCarlson

First Post

delericho

Legend

Azurewraith

Explorer

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