D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

Sorry, not what I was talking about, so you ended up being wrong here.

For Example, Loki lives in Asgard, which is in Ysgard, which is one of the Upper Planes. He's Evil. Same with Aegir and other evil Norse Gods.

For the evil egyptian gods such as Set and Sobek they live in Heliopolis which is found in Arcadia, an Upper Realm.

Olympus, where Ares resides is in Arborea, an upper plane.

So, again, we have evil gods living in the Upper Planes.
Where are you getting these homes in the great wheel?

In 1e Deities and Demigods about half of these are different, Set lives in the Nine Hells, Loki's plane is listed as Gladsheim or Pandemonium. Thyrm and Surtur are listed as Gladsheim (Jotunheim). The 1e Manual of the Planes talks specifically about Set's conflicts with the archdevils on Hell.

1e MoP Page 111:

"A very different relationship exits with Set, the Greater Power of the Egyptians, whose single-minded pursuit of vengeance against Osiris, Horus, and the rest of his pantheon exceeds even the hatred of Loki for the inhabitants of Gladsheim. Set can accept no equals, only subservient minions. While a united devilkind is too powerful to defeat, they are not powerful or unified enough to launch a war and drive Set from "their" hells. For this reason Set controls a large swath of the first layer of Avernus, which under his command is lit by a blazing sun and is as bone-dry as the desert. Set makes his home in a great palace of white stone. Captives are set to work erecting a massive pyramid that he hopes will fill his layer and create his own set of planes between the Nine Hells and Acheron. If you are looking for a good example of a mad god, Set comes dangerously close."
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Where are you getting these homes in the great wheel?

In 1e Deities and Demigods about half of these are different, Set lives in the Nine Hells, Loki's plane is listed as Gladsheim or Pandemonium. Thyrm and Surtur are listed as Gladsheim (Jotunheim). The 1e Manual of the Planes talks specifically about Set's conflicts with the archdevils on Hell.

1e MoP Page 111:

"A very different relationship exits with Set, the Greater Power of the Egyptians, whose single-minded pursuit of vengeance against Osiris, Horus, and the rest of his pantheon exceeds even the hatred of Loki for the inhabitants of Gladsheim. Set can accept no equals, only subservient minions. While a united devilkind is too powerful to defeat, they are not powerful or unified enough to launch a war and drive Set from "their" hells. For this reason Set controls a large swath of the first layer of Avernus, which under his command is lit by a blazing sun and is as bone-dry as the desert. Set makes his home in a great palace of white stone. Captives are set to work erecting a massive pyramid that he hopes will fill his layer and create his own set of planes between the Nine Hells and Acheron. If you are looking for a good example of a mad god, Set comes dangerously close."
In the 3e Deities & Demigods, Loki is listed as having his home plane Asgard prior to the death of Baldur, and the Prime Material being his home plane after. Maybe he's looking there. Of course that book also shows the Prime Material as Sobek's home plane and some place called The Twelve Hours of Night for Set, so perhaps not.
 

Looked it up a little more.

Set's home plane of the Nine Hells in 1e Deities and Demigods and Manual of the Planes is different than the Twelve Hours of Night in the 3.0 DDG which is different from Stygia in 2e FR Powers and Pantheons which is different from Heliopolis in 3.0 FR Faiths and Pantheons. Set has four different home planes referenced across three editions.
 
Last edited:

I know. And I don't like it. It is one of my biggest pet peeves with World-building is to have so many opposing factions that never interact.



Sorry, not what I was talking about, so you ended up being wrong here.

For Example, Loki lives in Asgard, which is in Ysgard, which is one of the Upper Planes. He's Evil. Same with Aegir and other evil Norse Gods.

For the evil egyptian gods such as Set and Sobek they live in Heliopolis which is found in Arcadia, an Upper Realm.

Olympus, where Ares resides is in Arborea, an upper plane.

So, again, we have evil gods living in the Upper Planes.
I would need to look them up again in the PS sources for Loki and Aegir. Set has his realm in the nine hells, he doesn't room with the rest of his pantheon. His "tug of war" with Levistus where he tries to extend the boundariesof his realm while Levistus tries to shrink and ideally absorb it a into Stygia is legendary
 

Looked it up a little more.

Set's home plane of the Nine Hells in 1e Deities and Demigods and Manual of the Planes is different than the Twelve Hours of Night in the 3.0 DDG which is different from Stygia in 2e FR Powers and Pantheons which is different from Heliopolis in 3.0 FR Faiths and Pantheons. Set has four different home planes referenced across three editions.
funnily enough the 3.0 DDG doesn't describe the D&D version of the aegyptian pantheon, but an alternate aegyptian pantheon as the only pantheon in a world and cosmology of it's own. Same with the other "historial" pantheons

That's why it doesn't use the D&D planes or mentions what's Lokis relationship with Mask or Olidammara is.
 

Where are you getting these homes in the great wheel?

In 1e Deities and Demigods about half of these are different, Set lives in the Nine Hells, Loki's plane is listed as Gladsheim or Pandemonium. Thyrm and Surtur are listed as Gladsheim (Jotunheim). The 1e Manual of the Planes talks specifically about Set's conflicts with the archdevils on Hell.
In Planescape (2e), Set still lives Baator/Nine Hells. According to the FR Wiki, in 3x, he lived in Heliopolis. However, this was the Heliopolis of the World Tree cosmos, where all the Mulhorandi gods lived, not the Heliopolis in Arcadia, which is apart of the Great Wheel.

Ares did live in Olympus in 2e, but On Hallowed Ground does make note of the fact that, unlike most other pantheons, the Greek gods like to stick together and only a few of the gods live off of Olympus.

1633556853798.png
 

I would need to look them up again in the PS sources for Loki and Aegir. Set has his realm in the nine hells, he doesn't room with the rest of his pantheon. His "tug of war" with Levistus where he tries to extend the boundariesof his realm while Levistus tries to shrink and ideally absorb it a into Stygia is legendary
Aegir is in Ysgard/Ysgard/Asgard, as per On Hallowed Ground. Loki is both there and in Pandemonium/Pandesmos/Winter's Hall.
 

2e Monster Mythology has a full write up for Demogorgon as a lesser deity venerated by ixitxachitl. There a number of Tanari Lords who are demigods or lesser deities with specific monstrous followings. Baphomet, Demogorgon, Juiblex, Kostchie, Lolth, Ssesinek, Yeenoghu. Orcus is not mentioned there though as no monstrous race or big proportion of them takes him as their specific patron.

2e is sort of the reverse of 4e as archdevils are not listed as gods, but several demon lords are.

Gotcha
 

Since you like wikis so much. You can follow the Demogorgon link to the second quote.

"Ever hungry for more power, Orcus wanted to be recognized as "Prince of Demons", a title held by Demogorgon and coveted also by Graz'zt. As a result, he became the arch-enemy of both demon lords. In time, Orcus also achieved true godhood."

"Demogorgon was a powerful demon lord and lesser deity from the Abyss"


Okay, so now at this point we have Asmodeus, Orcus, and Demogorgon as Gods. We also know that Graz'zt is a peer of of Demogorgon and Orcus, and his son is a famous demigod (title given before Demigod was just a rank of power, so possible evidence that Graz'zt was originally conceived of as a god)

Lot of this going around it seems.

Um, yes I have. I guess I have to quote it for you again. "Choose a god, a pantheon of gods, or some other quasi-divine being from among those listed in appendix B..." It does not limit you to Eberron, but nice try.

I never said it did limit you to Eberron. It limits you to Appendix B, and those beings from Eberron are the only ones not listed as gods. So, is it not possible that those non-gods in Appendix B were the "quasi-divine beings" beings referenced?

After all, if your only source is 5e... you would have no way of knowing those other beings were once Demigods. And the Sword Coast where you listed more never refers to them as Demigods.

No. Prayers in the context of clerics are divine spells. Omens are just things sent by the Demon Lord. He could send a black crow to hit a tree, and then the gnolls would interpret that.

So, if an acoylte who can't cast divine spells begs their diety for safety, and the deity sends an omen leading them to safety... what would you call that? Because form what you just said you can't call it praying and a prayer being answered, because no clerical spell was cast.

Which seems like a bizzarely narrow way to talk about prayer. Almost like it is crafted for a singular puprose, like limiting it only to clerical spells that you can then claim aren't granted by the Demon Lord so you can say he doesn't answer prayers.

What part of magical power = divine clerics do you not understand. Warlocks get power from Demon Lords all the time. That doesn't make a Demon Lord a god that can hear and grant prayer spells.

I would ask you the same about divine clerical spells =/= prayers. But you'll probably try and twist it around to some extremely narrow definition relying on older editions.

I don't have to disprove clerics of Demon Lords. YOU have to prove it, since it was your claim. All I did was show how your "worshippers" and "priests" passages can be explained by completely non-magical means. Now you have to prove that what I've shown isn't true and that they really do grant clerical spells, and you have to show it explicitly.

And I've shown how "clerics" of Gods can be completely explained via non-magical means too. Since the argument can apply to both sides, doesn't it seem reasonable to give the same benefit of the doubt to both sides too?

Yes. Yes she can do that as a demigod. There is no need for her to grant spells. All she needs to do is supervise the portfolios she has been put in charge of. That's the point of exarchs. Virtually all of them were Demigods or weaker. They're lower management like Solars.

Right, I guess I need to quote the book. AGAIN.

Quasi-deities have a divine origin, but they don’t hear or answer prayers, grant spells to clerics, or control aspects of mortal life. They are still immensely powerful beings, and in theory they could ascend to godhood if they amassed enough worshipers. Quasi-deities fall into three subcategories: demigods, titans, and vestiges.

So, actually, no she can't do that as a demigod. Explcitly in 5e, that ability was taken away. To hear an answer prayers, the job of an exarch, they need to be at least a Lesser Diety in 5e. And notably, all the demigods and exarchs that used to answer prayers and grant spells in previous editions... are not longer refered to as Demigods.
 


Remove ads

Top