D&D General What Constitutes "Old School" D&D

Voadam · Jun 30, 2022

Lanefan said:
All the nonsense around polymorphing your allies started when 3e took out the risks, thereby breaking the spell.

In my experience spell utilization got creative in 1e.

"Hey there guard dog, you will heel, stay, and attack on command like a good boy, right? That's a good boy! Now let's get this charm monster cast on you for a little guaranteed good will for a month before your next save, then let's try a polymorph for something big!"

Lanefan · Jun 30, 2022

Voadam said:
In my experience spell utilization got creative in 1e.

"Hey there guard dog, you will heel, stay, and attack on command like a good boy, right? That's a good boy! Now let's get this charm monster cast on you for a little guaranteed good will for a month before your next save, then let's try a polymorph for something big!"

Yeah, and were I the DM once that dog got turned into something big it would use the something-big's duration on the charm rather than the dog's...

Celebrim · Jun 30, 2022

Lanefan said:
Yeah, and were I the DM once that dog got turned into something big it would use the something-big's duration on the charm rather than the dog's...

Not to mention that I'd rule Polymorph Other is an overtly hostile act (on multiple grounds, not the least of which is the system shock survival roll check) and so automatically breaks the charm (resulting in a near 100% chance the "something-big" having it's default personality and opinions), and that I'm pretty sure Polymorph Other doesn't change the dogs hit points regardless of the form it is in so the new creature is at best a glass cannon.

And that's not even getting into the ethics of polymorphing fido into a monster. You are now a classic evil wizard. Prepare for the universe to treat you as one.

Voadam · Jun 30, 2022

Lanefan said:
Yeah, and were I the DM once that dog got turned into something big it would use the something-big's duration on the charm rather than the dog's...

Still lasts at least a week.

My magic-user used charm monster a bunch while soloing to have a bit of menagerie muscle.

Charm Monster (Enchantment/Charm)
Level: 4 Components: V, S
Range: 6” Casting Time: 4 segments
Duration: Special Saving Throw: Neg.
Area of Effect: Special
Explanation/Description: This spell is similar to a charm person spell (q.v.), but it will affect any living creature — or several creatures of lesser level as explained hereafter. The magic-user casts the charm monster spell, and any affected creature regards the spell caster as friendly, an ally or companion to be treated well or guarded from harm. If communication is possible, the charmed creature will follow reasonable requests, instructions, or orders most faithfully (cf. suggestion spell). Affected creatures will eventually come out from under the influence of the spell, and the probability of such breaking of a charm monster spell is a function of the creature’s level, i.e. its number of hit dice:

Monster Level or Hit Dice Percent Chance/Week of Breaking Spell
1st or up to 2 5%
2nd or up to 3 + 2 10%
3rd or up to 4 + 4 15%
4th or up to 6 25%
5th or up to 7 + 2 35%
6th or up to 8 + 4 45%
7th or up to 10 60%
8th or up to 12 75%
9th or over 12 90%
Naturally, overtly hostile acts by the person charming the monster will automatically break the spell, or at the very least allow the monster a new saving throw versus the charm, the spell will affect from 2-8 1st level creatures, 1-4 2nd level creatures, 1 or 2 3rd level, or 1 creature of 4th or higher level.

Voadam · Jun 30, 2022

Helldritch said:
Yep, without consent, it was an "evil" thing to do. Meaning that character was automatically an NPC. That method was used by good casters but they were paying a hefty price for the right to do it and always under careful approbation by the local church/lord or whatever.

You seem to have been playing under some serious house rules there. 1e D&D explicitly contemplated evil PCs (for example all assassin PCs). The rules for switching alignments imposed a loss of one level in 1e and then an xp penalty for a while, but that was for any alignment switch, including going from neutral to good.

Being turned into some kinds of monsters could turn you into an NPC, and there was discussion in 2e Ravenloft of turning those PCs who fell into dark lord path corruption into NPcs.

Voadam · Jun 30, 2022

Celebrim said:
Not to mention that I'd rule Polymorph Other is an overtly hostile act (on multiple grounds, not the least of which is the system shock survival roll check) and so automatically breaks the charm (resulting in a near 100% chance the "something-big" having it's default personality and opinions)

That is a not unreasonable judgment call to make.

It only modifies the procedure slightly though into 1) have a bunny hop into a big cage, 2) secure it, 3) only then cast polymorph, 4) then cast charm monster, 5) then cast detect magic to make sure the charm worked.

Much safer than casting charm monster on a random big monster that is ambushing and trying to eat you (the actual method I used to gain protective monster companions).

Celebrim · Jun 30, 2022

Voadam said:
That is a not unreasonable judgment call to make.

It only modifies the procedure slightly though into 1) have a bunny hop into a big cage, 2) secure it, 3) only then cast polymorph, 4) then cast charm monster, 5) then cast detect magic to make sure the charm worked.

Which leaves you with a 1 h.p. whatever it is you turned it in to.

Voadam · Jun 30, 2022

Celebrim said:
Which leaves you with a 1 h.p. whatever it is you turned it in to.

Which can still be useful.

Or you could corral a 1-5 HD herd animal. An ox is 15 gp in the 1e PH, cheaper than a guard dog. A cow is only 10 gp.

Enevhar Aldarion · Jun 30, 2022

Sort of strange we could not vote for multiple choices in this, so my vote for mid-late 90's is that and everything before it, as I see anything before 3rd edition as "old school", with my dividing line being the change in how multi-classing worked.

AbdulAlhazred · Jun 30, 2022

Voadam said:
Still lasts at least a week.

My magic-user used charm monster a bunch while soloing to have a bit of menagerie muscle.

Charm Monster (Enchantment/Charm)
Level: 4 Components: V, S
Range: 6” Casting Time: 4 segments
Duration: Special Saving Throw: Neg.
Area of Effect: Special
Explanation/Description: This spell is similar to a charm person spell (q.v.), but it will affect any living creature — or several creatures of lesser level as explained hereafter. The magic-user casts the charm monster spell, and any affected creature regards the spell caster as friendly, an ally or companion to be treated well or guarded from harm. If communication is possible, the charmed creature will follow reasonable requests, instructions, or orders most faithfully (cf. suggestion spell). Affected creatures will eventually come out from under the influence of the spell, and the probability of such breaking of a charm monster spell is a function of the creature’s level, i.e. its number of hit dice:

Monster Level or Hit Dice Percent Chance/Week of Breaking Spell
1st or up to 2 5%
2nd or up to 3 + 2 10%
3rd or up to 4 + 4 15%
4th or up to 6 25%
5th or up to 7 + 2 35%
6th or up to 8 + 4 45%
7th or up to 10 60%
8th or up to 12 75%
9th or over 12 90%
Naturally, overtly hostile acts by the person charming the monster will automatically break the spell, or at the very least allow the monster a new saving throw versus the charm, the spell will affect from 2-8 1st level creatures, 1-4 2nd level creatures, 1 or 2 3rd level, or 1 creature of 4th or higher level.

One of the best of all 4th level spells. The goal of course being to burn through each monster before it reaches the one week mark, lol. The other trick was to drop the monster into a portable hole/bag of holding. Placing said item in the vicinity of your opponents, opening it, and leaving so the beholder can come on out and have lunch is fun, though you better be sure you can get him back in afterwards! lol.

D&D General What Constitutes "Old School" D&D

What is "Old School" D&D

Mid 1970s: OD&D

Late 1970s-Early 1980s: AD&D and Basic

Mid-Late 1980s: AD&D, B/X, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms

Late 1980s-Early 1990s: @nd Edition AD&D, BECMI

Mid-Late 1990s: Late 2E, Dark Sun, Plane Scape, Spelljammer

Early-Mid 2000s: 3.x Era, Eberron

Late 2000s-Early 2010s: 4E Era

Mid 2010s: Early 5E

You've got it all wrong, Old School is...

Voadam

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Celebrim

Legend

Voadam

Legend

Voadam

Legend

Voadam

Legend

Celebrim

Legend

Voadam

Legend

Enevhar Aldarion

Hero

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

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