Spoilers Doctor Who s15 (or 2) [[spoilers!]]

Morrus said:

It predates Pratchett by centuries and sports in multiple mythologies across the works. It’s an old folklore thing.

All you need to know is he’s the first Time Lord and he’s a baddie. If it bothers you that he appeared before, just pretend he hasn’t. Even as a new character that basic story works just as well as some other random new character called Caprica or something would.

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I thought the seventh son of a seventh son thing was strictly a bit of Irish folklore, but Wikipedia turned up this fascinating little bit of lore.

In Lancashire and particularly in Blackburn there was, in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, a tradition of calling seventh sons of seventh sons (and seventh sons) 'Doctor' (forename) because of their supposed abilities as healers.

Ryujin said:

If I remember correctly it was Omega who created the power necessary for the Time Lords to travel in time by collapsing a star into a black hole, then got sucked into it himself(?). I think that was Tom Baker doctor years, but, as you say, it's been several decades since I originally saw those shows.

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Close - it was in "The Three Doctors," a Jon Pertwee (Third Doctor) episode, that we first met up with Omega.

Johnathan

Morrus said:

It predates Pratchett by centuries and sports in multiple mythologies across the works. It’s an old folklore thing.

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The 7th son of a 7th son being special is pretty standard mythology. Adding a generation on top of that to create a reality-warper... I think that's a Pratchett original, though it's not a huge leap that another generation of the same would be even more special.

Though in Pratchett's version, it's of course the 8th son of an 8th son of an 8th son, because on the Disc 8 is the magic number. There was also a previous story where an old dying wizard sought out an 8th son who had 7 sons already and whose wife was about to give birth to yet another child, in order to give the new wizard-to-be his staff... except that he didn't check the details, and the child happened to be a girl.

Ryujin said:

If I remember correctly it was Omega who created the power necessary for the Time Lords to travel in time by collapsing a star into a black hole, then got sucked into it himself(?). I think that was Tom Baker doctor years, but, as you say, it's been several decades since I originally saw those shows.

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Omega (not his real name) and Rassilon were bff school mates on Galifrey studying to be Solar Engineers. Omega came up with the theory of collapsing a star into a blackhole and harnessing the energy to power timetravel. His teachers ridiculed the theory giving him the grade of Omega (ie last) of course that made him depressed and become a villain.

His BFF Rassilon got angry and became a power hungry dictator by overthrowing the Galifreyan Council and making himself President. As President he funded Omegas project to collapse a star (The Other also helped) - which was successful, Omega created the Eye of Harmony but for his troubles fell in (or was he pushed?) And found himself trapped in an Antimatter Universe (which may or may not be Hell)

Rassilon, Omega and The Other are the closest thing ancient Galifrey had to gods. Rassilon as Eternal Leader, Omega as Great Scientist and The Other as the Unorthodox Rebel.

Tonguez said:

I do think this was a bit too much like a Master plan rather than a Rani plan, this was too convoluted for the Rani, who never tried to torture the Doctor, just manipulate him to do things he would refuse to do if asked.

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Nonono, it makes complete sense:

Mrs. Flood bigenerated into Mrs. Flood and The Rani, then thanks to Conrad enforcing his views on reality women became bad drivers and Mrs. Flood and The Rani got into car accidents and bigenerated into Mrs. Flood, The Rani, the original Master, and The Corsair. Then all four of them got into car accidents and more bigenerations occured and then it happened again and again and again.

The deaths and bigenerations kept happening until eventually the sheer mass of bigenerating Timelords collapses into a black hole which along with the resulting explosion of temporal energy reverses the polarity of the neutron flow and remakes the universe into the first episode the last season, thus making everything that's happened make sense and fit together perfectly.

Or it might just be OOC behavior, who can say?

Tonguez said:

Rassilon, Omega and The Other are the closest thing ancient Galifrey had to gods. Rassilon as Eternal Leader, Omega as Great Scientist and The Other as the Unorthodox Rebel.

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The "Unorthodox Rebel?" Sounds like the Doctor.

Rabulias said:

The "Unorthodox Rebel?" Sounds like the Doctor.

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That maybe a spoiler but if you're interested google Cartmel Masterplan which refers to story notes the writers were using during the Sylvester McCoy era, where it was hinted that the Doctor was not just a Timelord and much older than previously thought (which has been confirmed with the pre-Hartnell incarnations being revealed). Anyway the show was cancelled before the plan was completed and thus it is not (yet) canon - though it does exist in prose and audiobooks most notably Lungbarrow

Who thought about this?

Ryujin said:

I thought the seventh son of a seventh son thing was strictly a bit of Irish folklore, but Wikipedia turned up this fascinating little bit of lore.

In Lancashire and particularly in Blackburn there was, in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, a tradition of calling seventh sons of seventh sons (and seventh sons) 'Doctor' (forename) because of their supposed abilities as healers.

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A lot of this is a gender and class thing. If you were male and posh you were a doctor, if you were female and poor you were a witch. As it happens, I was up in Pendle last week. Pendle witches - Wikipedia

Paul Farquhar said:

A lot of this is a gender and class thing. If you were male and posh you were a doctor, if you were female and poor you were a witch. As it happens, I was up in Pendle last week. Pendle witches - Wikipedia

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You were also a witch if you were a woman and the sole inheritor of desirable property.