2 questions about the Sudden metamagic feats

[reveal]

1) There are "Sudden" metamagic feats in Complete Arcane that allow a spellcaster to apply a metamgic feat to a spell once per day with no bump in spell level. For example, Sudden Empower allows a spellcaster to apply the Empower Feat to a spell with no level bump once per day.

Has anyone used these? I've read they were originally in the mini's handbook. If you have, are they worth it?

2) The Sudden Empower feat allows a spellcaster to apply the Empower feat, once per day, on a spell without bumping up the level of the spell.

Does this mean that, when crafting a wand, a spellcaster can cast the spell into the wand with the Sudden Empower feat, thereby putting a true 4th level spell that is Empowered into the wand?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

1) I've used them, and I've given one to a PC I'm creating for a one-off. They are, generally speaking, more useful for wizards than for sorcerors (who have the main benefit - the ability to do metamagic off the cuff - natively).

2) No, you can't do that.

 

[reveal]

1) I've used them, and I've given one to a PC I'm creating for a one-off. They are, generally speaking, more useful for wizards than for sorcerors (who have the main benefit - the ability to do metamagic off the cuff - natively).

2) No, you can't do that.

I'll be a wizard, so that's good.

Any particular reason why you can't use the feat with crafting wands?

 

[Crothian]

I used them for aWarmage, I don't like them. Once a day abilities are just saved to a hard encounter and then that encounte rbecomes really easy. I like the attempt to make meta magic work a bit different but this is pretty much failed in my eyes.

2) and you can't do that

 

[reveal]

2) and you can't do that

Why not?

 

[kenobi65]

Because anything that gets "added" to a spell that's put into wand (such as an XP cost or expensive material component) has to be added 50 times. Since Sudden Metamagic can only be used once per day, and it takes far fewer than 50 days to make a wand, it won't work.

 

[Crothian]

Why not?

Because I said so!!

If you were a player in my group that would be enough. Balance is the big reason. Now if you wanted a 2wand that was able to cast an empowered fireball once a day, that would be find since that is what the feat does. But it seems you think that a feat that can be used once a day should allow a wand to do it all day (least 50 times).

 

[reveal]

Because anything that gets "added" to a spell that's put into wand (such as an XP cost or expensive material component) has to be added 50 times. Since Sudden Metamagic can only be used once per day, and it takes far fewer than 50 days to make a wand, it won't work.

Creating Wands

To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the wand—375 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focuses the spell requires. Fifty of each needed material component are required, one for each charge. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost (multiplied by 50) upon beginning the wand in addition to the XP cost for making the wand itself. Likewise, material components are consumed when she begins working, but focuses are not. (A focus used in creating a wand can be reused.) The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand’s creation. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

Crafting a wand requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.

I don't understand what you're getting at. I can put an Empowered Scorching Ray in a wand because it's considered a 4th level spell. That's really it.

 

[reveal]

Because I said so!!

If you were a player in my group that would be enough. Balance is the big reason. Now if you wanted a 2wand that was able to cast an empowered fireball once a day, that would be find since that is what the feat does. But it seems you think that a feat that can be used once a day should allow a wand to do it all day (least 50 times).

If my DM said no, I wouldn't do it. But I truely want to know why I couldn't do it. So far it just sounds like I shouldn't do it because it's "unbalanced" but I don't see anything ruleswise that makes me think I can't. What am I missing?

 

[Crothian]

If my DM said no, I wouldn't do it. But I truely want to know why I couldn't do it. So far it just sounds like I shouldn't do it because it's "unbalanced" but I don't see anything ruleswise that makes me think I can't. What am I missing?

The SRD is not made to handle it. It is a rules addition that was made after the craft wands rules were. There is no text that I see addressing the situations that says one is able to use Sudden meta magics when crafting items. Many of the books that come out are not fully written to address all situations like this, so since it doesn';t say one can it is best to assume you are not able to.