2-Weapon Fighting vs. 1-Weapon Fighting

[Epametheus]

If his opponent has an annoyingly high ac, the two-weapon fighter could just drop his weaker sword and use the other two-handed style.

If you want to embarrase one fo the dual weilders, some guy with a large shield, full plate, a 12 Dex, and magic vestment cast on both his armor and his shield -- AC 25 or so -- and Expertise thrown in as the final insult could vex them greatly.

Hell, with all that, he could vex the large-weapon weilders, too. Cast Haste and a Protection from Chaos or whatever works on your PCs on him, and he's be AC 36 or so until someone finally dropped a Dispel Magic on him. I'm assuming a L6 fighter, so his to-hit would probably only be +4 to +8 (between stats, Weapon Focus, and weapon magic, and after Expertise), but he'd annoy the hell out of your frontliners.

Hopefully, they won't kill you once they finally find out what the heck was up with the invincible guy .

 

[Artoomis]

In the final analysis, two-weapon fighting and one-weapon fighting are roughly equal.

You get greater flexibility with two-weapon fighting, greater defense with one-weapon fighting.

 

[Dwarmaj]

Are there any feats to enhance 1-weapon fighting, but not 2-weapon fighting?

A dual wielder could get Improved two weapon fighting, Greater two weapon fighting, and other feats to reduce the penalty for fighting with two weapons and to gain exta attacks. Are there any feats specificly designed for a two handed swordsman or someone with the Sword/Shield styles?

 

[Dreaddisease]

This is levels 1 thru 3 right? I'm trying to figure out how people are coming up with 3rd level spells and +2 enchantments on armor and weapons. Try doing the whole thing without magic. Just a suggestion.

It seems like he wants to show his players that 2-weapon wielders are just as good as 1 weap weilders. So the combat should be balanced. Just like meeting a person with a keen rapier for the first time and he rolls a critical with a 14. Sometimes you want to show your characters that there is a large range of possibilities out there so don't always focus on one style.

That's what I think he was getting at.

 

[Crothian]

Are there any feats to enhance 1-weapon fighting, but not 2-weapon fighting?

A dual wielder could get Improved two weapon fighting, Greater two weapon fighting, and other feats to reduce the penalty for fighting with two weapons and to gain exta attacks. Are there any feats specificly designed for a two handed swordsman or someone with the Sword/Shield styles?

There are a few shield feats out there. Mongoose has a two handed feat in it's QF book.

 

[bensei]

A dual wielder could get Improved two weapon fighting, Greater two weapon fighting, and other feats to reduce the penalty for fighting with two weapons and to gain exta attacks.

Improved two weapon fighting is a feat that makes two weapon fighting still useful at higher levels. Since you receive the 2-weapon-fighting penalties on all attacks when using a full attack, getting just one extra attack with the off hand weapon would not pay off anymore, if you have 4 attacks each round.

 

[Gromm]

So if I look at it right the PC has a 19 in Str at level 6 (is this right?), and is doulbe wielding 2 bastard swords.

So he has:
+6 BAB
+4 Str to hit
+1 WF
+2/+1 Sword enhancements
-4 two weapons (no light weapon)
Total +8/+3/+7

For a 6th level character thats not very good at all.
Assuming he has +1 Full Plate, Dex bonus of +1, and maybe RoP +1. His AC is 21.

Throw a Ftr6 with equal stats/money and a Bastard sword-Shield

+6BAB
+4 Str
+1 WF
+2 Sword
Total +13/+8

Now all things equal he has more money to spend on other equipment, like armor and the like.
Assuming +2 Full Plate, +1 LargeShield, +1 Dex, +1 RoP. His AC is 25.

The 2 sword fighter needs 17,20 and 17 to hit.
The 1 sword fighter needs 8 and 13 to hit.

Given that the 2 sword fighter has almost no chance of hitting, and the 1 sword fighter is almost guaranteed to hit, I'll put money on the 1 sword fighter unless the other fighter drops a sword and fights two handed (even then the 1 swords got an edge with his AC).

I do seem to remember both his swords being really powerful (like +3 or better enhancements or something), but this just makes the 1 sword fighter better since he canuse his money to get an even higher AC, since armor is so much cheaper than weapons.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

To clarify the character is a 6th-level half-orc fighter with a 19 Str and 15 Dex. His attack bonuses can be broken down as follows:

+6 BAB
+2/+1 Magic Weapons
+1 Weapon Focus
+4 Strength

Single weapon attack is +13/+8 with damage of 1d10 + 6 (Str 2-handed) + 2 (Magic) + 2 (Weapon Spec.) +1d6 flaming. This is a total of 1d10 + 10 + 1d6 for an average damage of 19 points.

Two-Weapon attack is +9/+9 (taken Ambidexterity, 2-Weapon Fighting to reduce the penalties to -4). Plus a second attack with his primary weapon at +4. Damage with his primary weapon is 1d10 + 4 (Str) + 2 (Magic) +2 (Weapon Spec.) +1d6 flaming is 17. His second weapon damage is 1d10 + 2 (Str) + 1 (Magic) +2 (Weapon Spec.) +1d6 flaming is 14.

Assuming the character is fighting a sub 20 AC opponent (let's face it quite a lot of humanoid opponents will be that) then he uses the two-weapon style usually hitting twice on for 31 points of damage. Two rounds and it's all over!

If fighting a +24 AC the character tends to swap to a single weapon and usually hits once inflicting an average 19 points of damage.


The main problem is that every campaign one of these tanks seems to be created. What I'd like is to be able to encourage some variation by showing that other fighter options are available. Also just occasionally it would be nice to take the players and their assumptions down a peg or two!!!

 

[RogueJK]

In another few levels, you might consider a Fighter/Rogue/Duelist with a high Dexterity and Intelligence who finesses a rapier while using a Darkwood shield. (A minimum of 9 levels are needed for this to work. You'll want something like a Fighter4/Rogue3/Duelist2.)

For feats, he'll need:
Ambidexterity
Weapon Focus (Rapier)
Weapon Specialization (Rapier)
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Expertise

Toss Improved Critical in there if you have an extra feat to spare. If not, give him a Keen rapier.

With the right magic items (magic rapier, magic shield, gloves of dexterity, ring of protection, etc.) you'll end up with a high AC and a high attack bonus. And thanks to Weapon Specialization, Sneak Attack, and Precise Strike, his damage will be pretty high, too.

Combine that with Boots of Striding and Springing and Spring Attack to keep him a good distance away, and your two-weapon fighter will be sorely outmatched.

Max out his ranks in Bluff and add a level of Gladiator if you really want to piss your player off. This way, bluffing in combat is only a move-equivalent action, which will help create opportunities for sneak attacks. On every sneak attack, he'll do a minimum of 4d6+2 damage, and that isn't even considering his strength bonus or weapon enhancement.

 

[Macbrea]

Hmm, you want to annoy your friend and his two weapon fighter.

32 pt buy
Human Fighter 3
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14,Int 14, Wis 8, chr 8
Hps: 36 max

Feats: Expertise, Dodge, Power attack, improved trip, knockdown


Weapon: Greatsword (melee +6 (+3 vs opponent) dmg: 2d6+4)
Equipment: Chain shirt (AC 17 (21 vs opponent))




Just keep making attacks at him....with the hope of getting knockdowns (10 or more damage a shot). The MEA will eat your opponent alive.