D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[THEMNGMNT]

I'm the OP. When I started this thread I was hoping to have people engage on the question of if, how, and why 2024 D&D has adopted some 4E-inspired elements. Looking forward to continuing that conversation!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's not muddying up anything.

These terms (Supernatural, Transmundane, Magic) all amount to the same thing in 5.0/5.5. The system is not nearly granular enough.

If we were talking about PF1, we could have a debate about this, and 4e, but thats not the reality of the world we live in.

5.0 is (unsatisfying for both sides!) the 'lets try and just appease everyone a little' edition, but if its not actually mundane, blood and sinews, then it is in fact, some kind of magical/fantastical/whatever.

This isn't remotely trying to appease everyone.

It's explicitly appeasing one and only one stance and telling everyone else to take a hike.

In no world is a javelin toss of 1600 meters, anything but magic.

Sure there are. Many worlds exist where that isn't at all magical, even though it isn't something you could do in our world.

Your continued insistence that it is actually magic that is the super category containing everything else does not make it so. And nothing in the 5e rules says that that is so.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I'd rather understand what those reasons are for that tiny percentage, to be honest.

Being part of the top percentile on the bell curve?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I'm the OP. When I started this thread I was hoping to have people engage on the question of if, how, and why 2024 D&D has adopted some 4E-inspired elements. Looking forward to continuing that conversation!

If? I suppose. Only to an extremely minimal extent.

How? Well, they took Bloodied more seriously. Not really sure that anything else about it is even remotely like the actual rules or structures of 4e. Masteries are not weapon properties, for analogous reasons to how Hit Dice just aren't Healing Surges and conflating the two frankly reflects a lack of understanding of 4e.

Why? Turns out 4e has some actually good game design in it (who knew!!!) and 5.5e has allowed the designers to be ever so slightly less afraid of including a teeny, tiny bit more of that design.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Being part of the top percentile on the bell curve?

If you say so. That's not remotely good enough for me.

 

[Scribe]

It's explicitly appeasing one and only one stance and telling everyone else to take a hike.

Yes, that's what the explicitly 'supernatural' fans are doing.

As to the Javelin? Wuxai, sure.

You have 4e, I have Shadowdark, and 5e will remain unsatisfactory for both of us.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes, that's what the explicitly 'supernatural' fans are doing.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Folks who don't want the things we're talking about have four different options:
1. Don't play the classes that work in a way you don't like
2. Take the options that make those classes inherently magical to begin with.
3. Take those features we're suggesting that are on the lower end, specifically there to improve plausibility for folks who want it.
4. Avoid play at the high(er) levels where it matters. I've been told that I should avoid play at the low levels if I don't like the nature of those levels. Surely, then, it must be a fair cop to tell others to not play at high levels that might have attributes they don't care for?

As to the Javelin? Wuxai, sure.

You have 4e, I have Shadowdark, and 5e will remain unsatisfactory for both of us.

I mean, 5e is far more satisfactory for you than it is for me. Which is...literally the reason the discussion was being had in the first place.

 

[Scribe]

I mean, 5e is far more satisfactory for you than it is for me. Which is...literally the reason the discussion was being had in the first place.

Uh no. It isn't.

 

[BrokenTwin]

Okay, it's been said a few times now, and I feel the need to chime in:
If I wanted to play a wuxia RPG, I would NOT use D&D 4E. Or any edition of D&D, for that matter. Wuxia is a lot more than just "warriors who are capable of supernatural stuff". It's a whole genre with its own tropes, standards, and expectations. Using the term in the way I've seen it used in this thread feels a lot like the folks who called the Book of Nine Swords the "Book of Weeaboo Fightin' Magic".

 

[Scribe]

Okay, it's been said a few times now, and I feel the need to chime in:
If I wanted to play a wuxia RPG, I would NOT use D&D 4E. Or any edition of D&D, for that matter. Wuxia is a lot more than just "warriors who are capable of supernatural stuff". It's a whole genre with its own tropes, standards, and expectations. Using the term in the way I've seen it used in this thread feels a lot like the folks who called the Book of Nine Swords the "Book of Weeaboo Fightin' Magic".

Fair enough, I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, but in what I've seen, it's seemingly mundane warriors, doing extraordinary feats, that really doesn't have an equal in modern western media, that I know of.